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Green colour cast from Adobe DNG Converter

Discussion in 'Image Processing' started by hazwing, Apr 7, 2015.

  1. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    I'm still using LR4 which does not have support for the panasonic GM5, so I have been using Adobe DNG Converter, to convert the RAWs to DNG for editting in LR.

    However, I am noticing I am getting a tendency to a green colour cast from this. Particularly when I am looking at blue skies.
    Samples: the first bird shot is SOC Jpeg. Second bird shot is RAW converted to DNG and exported as jpg.
    Photo of swing is another example of feint green colour cast to the sky.

    Does anyone else see this green colour cast?
    Will upgrading to the latest LR (I'm trying to hold out for LR6) fix this issue, or will it just be the same?
    What is the best way of correcting this colour cast? WB, camera calibration sliders?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    It looks like a white balance issue to me. Are you using auto WB on the RAW conversion or picking, for instance daylight or similar preset?
     
  3. ean10775

    ean10775 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 31, 2011
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Eric
    Unless I'm missing something, I think the issue you're having is simply the expectation that the JPEG converted from the RAW file is going to match the JPEG processed in camera by the GM5. This isn't the case. The colors will most always be slightly to significantly different. If you want the colors to match you'll need to do a bit of work in LR and manually try to match them. In the end you may get close, but it most likely won't be identical. For what its worth I too am using LR4 and converting RAW files from my GX7 using Adobe DNG converter so they can be recognized by LR.
     
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  4. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    Yes, I am using AWB. If it's an issue with AWB then the jpeg should be a little off as well, right? I also took a similar shot with my EM5 using AWB, and when imported into LR it doesn't have the same green cast (if anything a slight magenta cast). Will upload a sample of the EM5 RAW coversion, attached to this post.

    I don't expect JPEG and the RAW file to be the same. However, I am noticing a relatively consistent green colour cast to my DNG converted GM5 files. I haven't noticed this before from my EM5. I might be tempted to say it's a difference between panasonic vs olympus colours, but I don't notice this colour cast in the panasonic JPEG. Hence, I feel it is more of an issue with the adobe rending/conversion of the GM5 files.

    I've have tried a few things to correct colour cast - including adjusting WB and camera calibration colour sliders. Still trying to figure out a consistent work around for this...
     

    Attached Files:

  5. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    Using auto WB in the camera is different than the WB values that the Adobe converter is going to use. I would not use the auto function in Adobe and either use a specific WB setting that matches the scene or custom set it.
     
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  6. David A

    David A Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 30, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    I'd say the problem isn't with Adobe DNG Converter. A DNG file is still basically a RAW file, there hasn't been a conversion which affects the image data. All that I understand is done with the conversion to DNG is a file format conversion with the data remaining unchanged. I think if you could compare the results of a RAW file imported directly into LR compared with results from a RAW file that had been converted to DNG, there would be no difference. You would still notice the same greenish cast in comparison to the out of camera JPEG.

    Where I think the difference will be found is between whatever Panasonic do in their in camera JPEG conversion and the way LR treats the RAW data. Camera manufacturers have a much better idea of their sensor and the balance of the colour channels in their RAW data capture than Adobe does, and they also seem to have a tendency to tweak their in camera JPEG conversion to produce particularly appealing results whereas my feeling is that LR's Adobe Standard profile presents a more "cool" or "neutral" take of the RAW data than the in camera JPEGs do. I'm not disputing that the DNG file opens in LR with a greenish cast compared to the JPEG but I think that the reason for that has nothing to do with the DNG conversion and everything to do with differences between how the camera converts the RAW data and how LR deals with it, whether that data is in a native RAW file or one that has been converted to DNG.
     
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  7. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    In LR the WB is usually set as "As shot". I assume this is the WB adobe interprets from the camera. LR also an "Auto" WB option. Sometimes this works better sometimes it does not. LR "auto" WB is not my default, camera AWB is.

    Colour can be a subject thing, but I guess I'm not a fan of the current rendering from Adobe of the panasonic GM5 RAW. I don't mind the Adobe rendering of EM5 raw, though. I actually prefer it over Huelight and Olympus's rendering. I gotta play around with these files a little more to figure out a preset that adjusts them to my taste.

    I'm planning to upgrade to LR6 when it comes out, it might not do anything, but I guess I'm due for an upgrade. I couldn't be bothered adding adobe DNG converter in my workflow.
     
  8. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    Yes, it is LR interpretation of the WB, which may not always be what you think it is. Remember, that the WB is one factor in the color of the image. Exsposure, black/white points, contrast and saturation can all play a factor. How the camera intermingles these are way different than what Adobe will do with them. I hardly ever use the Adobe recommended WB as it tends to go a little too cool for me.
     
  9. David A

    David A Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 30, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia

    I've got an E-M5 and an E-M1. I started out with LR4 and upgraded to LR5 on its release. I bought the Huelight profiles for the E-M5 a couple of years ago and used them for quite a while but ended up going back to Adobe Standard. Then Adobe bought out their 4 additional profiles for the E-M5 and I started using their "Camera Natural" but once again ended up going back to Adobe Standard. Both Huelight and the Adobe additional profiles initially looked a bit nicer to me but I kept gravitating back to Adobe Standard which ultimately looks a little more natural and less "pleasing" to me. I haven't tried the Huelight profiles for the E-M1.

    I do find adjusting the LR white balance to a slightly warmer rendition often helps, moving Adobe Standard a little bit in the direction of the other profiles. Another thing to be aware of is that Lightroom's/Adobe Camera RAW's contrast slider also affects saturation slightly so increasing contrast will slightly increase saturation and reducing contrast will slightly reduce saturation. I found that fact in Jeff Schewe's book "The Digital Negative" and it seems to be true. This behaviour was apparently based on the way that film saturation works if you adjust contrast by adjusting film development. I think I'd prefer to see the contrast slider have no effect on saturation. Anyway watching your white balance and use of the contrast slider in LR can both have an effect on colour rendering.

    I know I also used to add a little Vibrance boost with all of my files when I started using LR way back when I was using an E-P3 and kept doing that until some time within the last year though I slowly kept reducing how much Vibrance I added over time. I seem to have reached a point where I very rarely add any Vibrance or Saturation at all these days, especially with the E-M1. Don't know whether that's my eyes changing with time, my tastes changing, or a bit of both. A couple of times lately I've ended up reducing saturation slightly and then adding a slight boost to Vibrance in order to cut back just the most saturated colours a bit. I occasionally adjust saturation for a single colour in the HSL panel using the targeted adjustment tool.

    More interestingly, with shots like your one of the swing, I have recently started playing around with adjusting white balance for the non-sky areas when I do any white balance adjustment and then using an adjustment brush on the sky and clouds and warming the white balance slightly for them. I find that can give me a colour balance I prefer to whatever result I can obtain using the same white balance for the whole image but I may also find myself doing less of that over time. That seems to be a trend with me and a lot of what I do in processing over time, I end up doing slightly less and liking the result a bit more.

    What I have definitely found is that there seems to be a little bit more to getting colours where I want them in Lightroom than I initially thought, and also a lot more flexibility to adjust colour than I initially thought. On balance I've come to appreciate Adobe Standard a lot more over time than I initially did, but I also find myself using small white balance adjustments fairly often whereas initially I just left white balance "as shot". I keep learning a bit more about Lightroom processing over time and getting a bit more impressed by it as I do but I've had to work at it a lot and I can remember a time 2 years ago when I spent more than a few hours over several days working on one shot of some spectacular clouds over a nearby park in late afternoon just trying to get the colour balance "right" to my eyes. I went back to that file at some stage last year, created a virtual copy of the file in the original RAW file state, and reprocessed it to get what I thought was a much better outcome in only a few minutes with less dramatic processing and with a lot fewer adjustment steps along the way.

    I will definitely be getting LR6 when it comes out. You really have to keep up to date with LR if you want to be able to use the latest camera bodies and I seem to like keeping my software up to date even if I'm not planning on buying a new camera.
     
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  10. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    My defaults for LR is usually +15 vibrance +15 whites -5 blacks
    I found the EM5 'as shot' WB was usually pretty close. Times when it wasn't, I'd try LR's "auto" WB which sometimes provided a good result, sometimes completely off. Otherwise I'd tweak it til it looks right.

    I find with "people" shot's I tend not to like too much contrast, clarity and vibrance. With scenery there is a little more room to play with vibrance and saturation. I enjoy using the luminance sliders in LR when the scene suits. I used to add a fair bit of clarity to my scenery shots, but I'm finding I like it with less now.

    It's interesting how taste change with time. Overtime I'll probably change again.