Gonna give FF a try

[ijm5012]

@Robstar1963

Sorry for my delayed response. I've been quite busy with work lately, as well as with projects around the house, so my time spent visiting camera forums has dwindled substantially. However, I am very pleased to hear that you've found a new job after being made redundant at your previous job.

Regarding the Z6 for motorsports, I think it's a fine camera. The AF speed has been fine IMO (I am using adapted Nikon DSLR lenses, 70-200 f/2.8 II and a 300/2.8 VR I). The high ISO quality is incredible IMO. Coming from m43 and even the D500, the cleanliness of files at 3200, 6400, and even 12,800 is shocking (DXO PRIME noise reduction really helps clean a lot of that up as well during editing). I quite like the ergonomics of the camera, and the EVF is a joy to use (very big, detailed, etc.).

The one thing that I still struggle with though is panning. I don't know if it's just being a EVF, if it's the blackout during burst shooting, or something else, but I end up with far more "keepers" panning with my D500's (OVF) than I do with my Z6 (EVF). I would like to try a camera that has the blackout-free EVF (Sony A9), but I have a fairly substantial investment in very nice Nikon glass that I'm hesitant to part ways with.

For everything outside of motorsports (landscape, portraits, etc.), the Z6 is an absolute joy to use. It really is a great camera, despite the maligning it got by the professional "reviewers" when it first came out. And while it can work for motorsports, I still tend to enjoy shooting with the D500 more because the OVF makes it easier (for me) to follow the cars during burst shooting.

 

[Robstar1963]

I have been struggling with bad weather here so no opportunities to get out and take ‘decent’ pictures
However I decided to take the camera out today regardless to a local remembrance gathering (piper shown) and to a local park when we went for a family walk with the dog who you will note looks particularly scrawny due to the wet weather and wet grass !
Wasnt up together with the new camera at the remembrance gathering and took some of the photos during or sround the 3 minutes silence (on behalf of a local friend who arranged it) so couldn’t really stand there messing about with settings and shutter speeds were very low but a good test of IBIS which enabled me to capture these at 1/15th and 1/20th
There were other photos of the groups etc but not particularly interesting to post here

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[Robstar1963]

Whilst taking pictures of Marley the scrawny dog I was experimenting with different focussing settings including CAF with tracking which did a surprisingly good job of capturing the dog running quite fast
I had been led to believe on Nikon forums and fb that CAF tracking on the Z6 was poor but I was pleasantly surprised at how well it did capturing the ‘manic’ dog
I also took some photos of my daughter Molly running towards me and found that tracking captured every frame in focus which again surprised and pleased me
As a result I am now quite confident in using the camera for motorsports and quite convinced that I will be able to get a good hit rate on vehicles

Colours are very nicely balanced and accurate - the grass appearing as I recall it
It was a very overcast wet day (again !) so to capture the dog I had to use a variety of high ISO values in order to get high enough shutter speeds to capture his fur sharp whilst running
Shots below go up to 8000 ISO and I’m quite pleased with the low light performance here all jpegs SOOC
s

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[Robstar1963]

ISO 1600 sharpened and colours slightly boosted on PS Express on iPad

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[Robstar1963]

Molly
ISO 4000 Sharpened and Tweaked on PS Express on iPad

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[MichailK]

Certainly looks good!
But how much better?

 

[RS86]

Certainly looks good!
But how much better?

Really I'm sure in the portrait I saw Toneh in the background yelling: "Too little, too late. We need only the eyes in focus! Only one would be better!"

(What I mean, is that is a great photo and the DoF is just right and can be achieved with many systems. My uneducated guess would be that the lens is not nearly wide-open. Depending on the lens on FF.)

 

[frankmulder]

My uneducated guess would be that the lens is not nearly wide-open.

The last shot was taken at f/4 with a lens that has a maximum aperture of f/4, so technically that's "wide open". And this DoF effect could indeed be achieved on MFT too (albeit not with a native zoom lens; at least I don't know of any MFT zoom lenses that open up to f/2).

I guess the main advantages here are the improved CAF tracking (for the shots with moving subjects) compared to most if not all MFT cameras, a tiny bit more resolution+sharpness, and of course the convenience of being able to produce such DoF effects even with a ("slow") zoom lens. And maybe dynamic range too, although that is not really illustrated in these sample shots.

 

[RS86]

The last shot was taken at f/4 with a lens that has a maximum aperture of f/4, so technically that's "wide open". And this DoF effect could indeed be achieved on MFT too (albeit not with a native zoom lens; at least I don't know of any MFT zoom lenses that open up to f/2).

I guess the main advantages here are the improved CAF tracking (for the shots with moving subjects) compared to most if not all MFT cameras, a tiny bit more resolution+sharpness, and of course the convenience of being able to produce such DoF effects even with a ("slow") zoom lens. And maybe dynamic range too, although that is not really illustrated in these sample shots.

Yeah. f/2.0 with M43 is usually plenty of bokeh for me, and great that M43 lenses are so sharp wide open.

With macro I go f/11-14 mostly, more the DoF, the merrier. Tools for the trade.

Important point is that even with M43 I have found some of my artsy photos too wide open to get enough of DoF. There is a balance of sharp things and background blur, not matter what Toneh whispers in our ears.

This point combines well with macro photography (my main area), as DoF is essential so that more is in focus.

 

[John King]

The last shot was taken at f/4 with a lens that has a maximum aperture of f/4, so technically that's "wide open". And this DoF effect could indeed be achieved on MFT too (albeit not with a native zoom lens; at least I don't know of any MFT zoom lenses that open up to f/2).

Frank, the Panasonic f/1.7 10-25 ... .

https://www.cameralabs.com/panasonic-leica-dg-10-25mm-f1-7-h-x1025-review/

Besides, even at f/8, my 12-100 will give me very nice focus transitions.

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It's all a matter of understanding how lenses and DoF work ...

 

[MichailK]

after all, bokeh is overrated

 

[frankmulder]

Frank, the Panasonic f/1.7 10-25 ... .

...

Besides, even at f/8, my 12-100 will give me very nice focus transitions.

It's all a matter of understanding how lenses and DoF work ...

Fair enough. I guess I wasn't precise enough. I meant "a native f/2 zoom which covers the 35mm focal length, which would give a similar field of view as the one of the portrait shown above". You could take the picture at 25mm f/2, but it would give you either a different perspective or different framing (depending on whether you walk closer to the subject).

And yes, you can still get nice shallow DoF at f/8, but to achieve the same effect as you have in your flower picture, the photographer should have come so close to the girl that only her eyes and nose would be in the frame.

Understanding the effects of "distance to subject" and "distance to background" on DoF is important, but in practice you will be restricted by the perspective that you want to achieve and the actual circumstances on location (if the background is very close, but you have to take the picture there, there's nothing you can do about it).

In any case, the point I wanted to get across is that many people will see the sample images of @Robstar1963 and say "I could achieve something similar with MFT", and they'd be right. At least with the samples taken in daylight with the 24-70mm f/4 on a camera with a 24 megapixel sensor, there won't be much of a difference with a similar MFT setup. That's why I pointed out some other differences which could be important to some people (like the continuous AF). And of course when you slap on a 50mm f/1.2 lens on the Nikon, you get a look that is impossible to achieve with MFT. Whether that's something you should want, is an entirely different question...

 

[John King]

@frankmulder Frank, I really think that it is you who is missing the point here.

There are always "restrictions" in photography. Experience allows almost all of them to be overcome, regardless of gear ...

 

[frankmulder]

@frankmulder Frank, I really think that it is you who is missing the point here.

There are always "restrictions" in photography. Experience allows almost all of them to be overcome, regardless of gear ...

I'm pretty sure that's not the "point" of this thread. @Robstar1963 is trying out some new gear, and I'm happy for him, and also grateful that he shares the journey with us (if nothing else, it at least confirms that I don't need full frame ? ) . Of course on a Micro Four Thirds forum many will be inclined to say "you don't need the equipment that you just bought; you could have achieved everything with what you had previously!", but I think that's neither appropriate nor useful. We have enough threads running about this topic already.

 

[Macroramphosis]

We should have a thread called:

"The Visceral Satisfaction of Having Something Shiny and New in Your Hand"

I'm not saying this is applicable to @Robstar1963's needs, which are plainly professional, but it would surely suit those of us - like myself - who just know that having a new camera will make us a better photographer (despite the fact we have never fully realised anything like the potential of what we already have ).

 

[Brownie]

I'm kind of surprised how this thread is going. We have a well regarded long time member who is sharing their new gear, and this is the best we can do? We have an 'Other Systems' forum for a reason.

A couple of comments. Rob, glad for you. I too am trying to scratch a lot of itches lately, not sure where I'll end up but I envy your journey down this path. Love the sunray shot, some nice DR in that one.

Second, every photo I've ever seen of your kid looks like she's having fun. She must be a happy person...says something about dad too!

 

[Robstar1963]

I'm kind of surprised how this thread is going. We have a well regarded long time member who is sharing their new gear, and this is the best we can do? We have an 'Other Systems' forum for a reason.

A couple of comments. Rob, glad for you. I too am trying to scratch a lot of itches lately, not sure where I'll end up but I envy your journey down this path. Love the sunray shot, some nice DR in that one.

Second, every photo I've ever seen of your kid looks like she's having fun. She must be a happy person...says something about dad too!

Thanks @Brownie

I am going full frame partly to get better low light performance for Speedway next year which will enable me to continue shooting longer into the evening at events which start at 19.00 and continue until 21.30

Towards the end of these events (and after the main races) there is a development team event.
I usually have to abandon my photography at this point due to the low light limitations when using M43 which means that the development team sometimes gets left out of the round up of pictures which are posted the same evening or sometimes next day
My Fuji XT3 was better and increased the low light capabilities but I couldn’t afford to keep both Fuji and M43 systems so I went all M43 earlier this year sacrificing low light improvements.
Speedway didn’t run this year so I didn’t miss the low light improvements and events I could get to were daytime
Whatever anyone says about what they consider to be a marginal low light difference between M43 and other systems I can assure you that with fast moving motorsport subjects the shortfall with M43 is considerable - static subjects are a different matter altogether

As motorsports events for spectators have currently dried up I want to try to try to shoot some other genres including through the winter where low light levels will be more frequent

M43‘s continued development / availability and equipment values have recently been thrown into some doubt with the JIP takeover which has also prompted me to diversify my kit as I was very heavily invested in M43 after giving up and selling my Fuji kit. If the JIP situation hadn’t happened then perhaps I would not have been so motivated to diversify

Also I’m the type of person who doesn’t want to look back and wish I’d experimented (including with systems) whilst I am still able (bearing in mind my back injuries) so all in all it seemed to be good time to diversify
As I was diversifying it seemed to make sense to try FF having already tried (and liked) APSC with Fuji.
I will now be able to judge what system / combination of systems suit me best for what I end up shooting and make the most of it while I can whilst my back holds out (I’m hoping it doesn’t deteriorate but can’t count on that being the case)

I had discussed in previous posts an upcoming (provisionally paid) portrait job for my friend’s children and had considered venturing into other paid work (due to pending redundancy) but as I have now got and started another full time job this is less of a motivating factor

However I will still be doing the children’s portraits (provisionally still paid) and will use the Z6 24 - 70 f4.0 and 70-200 f2.8

Having already spoken to a photographer friend about my friend with the children‘s wedding and gotten into conversation - he has offered me a job as a second photographer at a wedding he is already booked for next year
I go to a camera club with him so he is aware of my capabilities.
I’ve been offered £250 for the job which I’ve accepted so looking forward to that
He has also agreed to be main photographer with me as second / back up again for my friend’s wedding if she decides to accept the offer from us (again paid)

My opinion rightly or wrongly is that wedding photography is better done with FF and I’m pretty sure he was more inclined to offer me work after I purchased the FF kit and I will be more confident using FF (again rightly or wrongly) for the wedding work

All in all I see the foray into FF as a very worthwhile move for all of the above reasons
I like the Z6 a lot despite the increased weight and size (of the lenses - body size and weight is comparable to a G9) and am really looking forward to shooting Speedway from the infield with the 70-200

I always like passing on the benefit of knowledge picked up along the way with equipment etc as there may be someone else considering the same thing and same equipment - so it seems a shame not to pass on my mental notes and as another has said above the info passed on may serve to confirm that they don’t actually need to consider FF or another system !

Im certainly happy with my new kit so far and enjoying the variety and yes - the increased enthusiasm buying new/different kit encourages which I make no bones about.
Im looking forward to having some better weather to do a little more and next years motorsports going ahead ?

Many thanks for your kind comments re Molly
She is 11 and has additional needs / learning difficulties so she struggles with schooling etc and is quite heavily dependant upon us
She is always a joy to have around and bring up and I couldn’t be more proud of her
I love her to bits?
She has always been a happy little girl and is (almost) always smiling and laughing - we have a good sense of humour here and she has picked that up along with a great sense of fun which I’d like to agree is at least partly down to me and my wife Hannah

 

[RichardC]

Thanks @Brownie

I am going full frame partly to get better low light performance for Speedway next year which will enable me to continue shooting longer into the evening at events which start at 19.00 and continue until 21.30

Towards the end of these events (and after the main races) there is a development team event.
I usually have to abandon my photography at this point due to the low light limitations when using M43 which means that the development team sometimes gets left out of the round up of pictures which are posted the same evening or sometimes next day
My Fuji XT3 was better and increased the low light capabilities but I couldn’t afford to keep both Fuji and M43 systems so I went all M43 earlier this year sacrificing low light improvements.
Speedway didn’t run this year so I didn’t miss the low light improvements and events I could get to were daytime
Whatever anyone says about what they consider to be a marginal low light difference between M43 and other systems I can assure you that with fast moving motorsport subjects the shortfall with M43 is considerable - static subjects are a different matter altogether

As motorsports events for spectators have currently dried up I want to try to try to shoot some other genres including through the winter where low light levels will be more frequent

M43‘s continued development / availability and equipment values have recently been thrown into some doubt with the JIP takeover which has also prompted me to diversify my kit as I was very heavily invested in M43 after giving up and selling my Fuji kit. If the JIP situation hadn’t happened then perhaps I would not have been so motivated to diversify

Also I’m the type of person who doesn’t want to look back and wish I’d experimented (including with systems) whilst I am still able (bearing in mind my back injuries) so all in all it seemed to be good time to diversify
As I was diversifying it seemed to make sense to try FF having already tried (and liked) APSC with Fuji.
I will now be able to judge what system / combination of systems suit me best for what I end up shooting and make the most of it while I can whilst my back holds out (I’m hoping it doesn’t deteriorate but can’t count on that being the case)

I had discussed in previous posts an upcoming (provisionally paid) portrait job for my friend’s children and had considered venturing into other paid work (due to pending redundancy) but as I have now got and started another full time job this is less of a motivating factor

However I will still be doing the children’s portraits (provisionally still paid) and will use the Z6 24 - 70 f4.0 and 70-200 f2.8

Having already spoken to a photographer friend about my friend with the children‘s wedding and gotten into conversation - he has offered me a job as a second photographer at a wedding he is already booked for next year
I go to a camera club with him so he is aware of my capabilities.
I’ve been offered £250 for the job which I’ve accepted so looking forward to that
He has also agreed to be main photographer with me as second / back up again for my friend’s wedding if she decides to accept the offer from us (again paid)

My opinion rightly or wrongly is that wedding photography is better done with FF and I’m pretty sure he was more inclined to offer me work after I purchased the FF kit and I will be more confident using FF (again rightly or wrongly) for the wedding work

All in all I see the foray into FF as a very worthwhile move for all of the above reasons
I like the Z6 a lot despite the increased weight and size (of the lenses - body size and weight is comparable to a G9) and am really looking forward to shooting Speedway from the infield with the 70-200

I always like passing on the benefit of knowledge picked up along the way with equipment etc as there may be someone else considering the same thing and same equipment - so it seems a shame not to pass on my mental notes and as another has said above the info passed on may serve to confirm that they don’t actually need to consider FF or another system !

Im certainly happy with my new kit so far and enjoying the variety and yes - the increased enthusiasm buying new/different kit encourages which I make no bones about.
Im looking forward to having some better weather to do a little more and next years motorsports going ahead ?

Many thanks for your kind comments re Molly
She is 11 and has additional needs / learning difficulties so she struggles with schooling etc and is quite heavily dependant upon us
She is always a joy to have around and bring up and I couldn’t be more proud of her
I love her to bits?
She has always been a happy little girl and is (almost) always smiling and laughing - we have a good sense of humour here and she has picked that up along with a great sense of fun which I’d like to agree is at least partly down to me and my wife Hannah

I too have a Molly, and she too has additional needs - we gave up sending her to school

That's where the similarity ends.

Because........I do not own a Z6.......unfortunately - but I'd like one to operate alongside my MFT stuff.

However, with me it would be a case of either/or and there are too many things I would miss from the gear I've got.

Anyway - my Molly has made me promise that I will let her have my Olympus gear when I am "you know, too old and disabled to use it" (that's what she really said lol).

 

[Robstar1963]

Any ideas re problem posting pictures here ?

I tried yesterday to post several pictures of Molly running towards me
All were saved correctly in portrait orientation on photos on my ipad
However when I tried to post them here to demonstrate how the tracking did a good job of focussing on her as she ran towards me they appeared incorrectly (ie sideways)
Despite deleting and repeating the excercise several times they still came out wrong - does anyone know why this happens please ?
They were taken in portrait on the camera

 

[Mack]

I've loaded up my B&H Photo's "Wish List" with the Nikon Z7 II and a 24-70mm f/2.8 and a FTZ for the other old F-mount junk, er... lenses, I have. After watching Ricci's Youtube comparison below between the 24-70mm f/4 and f/2.8 Z-mount lenses, I went with the f/2.8 as it was far sharper. Too bad Nikon doesn't have the f/2.8 as part of a cheaper kit like the f/4 version. Maybe late December.

All my old Nikon cameras are gone as well as the old 24-70mm f/2.8 G-glass which was never as sharp against my Olympus prime Pro glass, but that lens was a decade or more older.

I'll keep the Olympus stuff as it does have some pretty strong feature sets, besides having too much of it too. The color is a bit of an issue as it seems to have issues with blues; fwiw, I have a +6 Amber applied in both my E-M1 M-II and E-M1X both when shooting CWB. The departed Nikon D800E seemed more color-true and needed a lot less color fiddling work with a Colorchecker Digital SG card verses Olympus which seems to shift blues in highlights to shadows (A crossover which was maddening in C-41 film developing!).