Gonna give FF a try

[doxa750]

RobStar, congrats and enjoy your new setups.

Luckily, my brother is using Sony FF with one prime (don't remember which lens) and 70-200mm F2.8 big lens for his professional works. So, I got a chance to scratch my itches without spending a penny.

For now, I am sticking only to MFT all Olympus. It is more than good enough for me really

Cheers

 

[SpecFoto]

@Robstar1963 Does the TC14 1.4x teleconverter provided with the PL 200 f2.8 work OK on your EM1.2 or EM1.X, or does it only work on Panasonic bodies? I ask as my 40-150 f2.8 Pro works fine on my G9, but when I add the MC-14 the hit ratio drops to less than 10%. There is nothing wrong with my MC-14 and this combo works just fine with my EM1 or EM1.3. I would love to have the PL 200 f2.8 due to the smaller size and fast aperture and would prefer it over the Olympus 300 f4 Pro or new 100-400. But I would want the Panasonic 1.4x TC to work for when I needed reach.

 

[Robstar1963]

@Robstar1963 Does the TC14 1.4x teleconverter provided with the PL 200 f2.8 work on your EM1.2 or EM1.X, or does it only work on Panasonic bodies? I ask as my 40-150 f2.8 Pro works fine on my G9, but when I add the MC-14 the hit ratio drops to less than 10%. There is nothing wrong with my MC-14 and this combo works just fine with my EM1 or EM1.3. I would love to have the PL 200 f2.8 due to the smaller size and fast aperture and would prefer it over the Olympus 100-400 or 300 f4 Pro. But I would want the Panasonic 1.4x TC for when I needed reach.

Hi @SpecFoto
I used both an Olympus 40-150 f2.8 PRO and a previous 300mm f4.0 PRO on a previous G9
For fast action the G9 was pretty good but a little short of the performance of the Olympus EM1/2 at the time
From memory I also noticed a considerable drop off in performance when using the 1.4TC on those lenses which was worse than when using them with the Olympus bodies
I would say that as the DFD CDAF based autofocus of the G9 is already at a disadvantage compared to the Olympus PDAF systems that it is further challenged and disadvantaged by the use of the 1.4TC which would explain those issues
I don’t think this is an issue with regard to the use of the respective TCs from each manufacturer but as I say due to the inherently more challenged G9 focussing system
I don’t have the original 1.4 TC from my PL 200 as I sold that to partially fund the 300 I currently have as it was worth in excess of £300 and was superfluous with an Olympus 300 - if I’d known then what I know now with regard to Covid preventing events going ahead worldwide I would have kept the 1.4 TC and avoided buying the 300mm
Having said all of that I’ve not used the PL200 with the Panasonic 1.4 TC on a G9 - that combination may work better but I have no experience of that combo.
I would probably assume it would be better as the G9 would be using DFD for the PL200 which it cant do on the 40-150 and 300
Id feel reasonably confident that an all Panasonic set up would yield better results
Just remembered as I write - If you look through my MXGP motocross pictures from earlier this year on my Motorsports thread I was using a G9 with the PL200 and I can recall being amazed at how many shots came out in perfect focus (hundreds from the day at the event - didn’t post many as they were quite repetitive due to very restricted access for public vantage points this year ) Again though Im pretty sure I didn’t have the 1.4 TC in use at that time (from memory just the bare PL200 and PL 12-60 I had a5 the time)
Hope this helps Edit link attached to the MXGP PL200 images (mixed in with XT3 shots)

https://www.mu-43.com/threads/motorsports-thread-post-your-fast-paced-action-here.84321/page-71

 

[doady]

I saw a Canon 70-200mm F4.0 full frame lens in a YouTube video just last night and it looked very reasonable. 70-200mm F2.8 might be excessive for a full frame system. It's sort of like that Four Thirds 35-100mm F2.0, maybe expecting too much, maybe unnecessarily for many people. I would be more than happy with a F4.0 zoom for full frame, especially at longer focal lengths, same way I would be more than happy with a F2.8 zoom for m4/3, but maybe that's just me (currently using 12-100mm F4.0!).

 

[nstelemark]

The scary bit - Panasonic 35-100 f2.8 ii (X)
vs Focal Length (field of view) Equivalent Nikon Z 70-200 f2.8

View attachment 854542

I think this is a bit more realistic -

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

 

[Chris5107]

@Robstar1963 A bit off topic, but does the TC14 1.4x teleconverter provided with the PL 200 f2.8 work OK on your EM1.2 or EM1.X, or does it only work on Panasonic bodies? I ask as my 40-150 f2.8 Pro works fine on my G9, but when I add the MC-14 the hit ratio drops to less than 10%. There is nothing wrong with my MC-14 and this combo works just fine with my EM1 or EM1.3. I would love to have the PL 200 f2.8 due to the smaller size and fast aperture and would prefer it over the Olympus 300 f4 Pro or new 100-400. But I would want the Panasonic 1.4x TC to work for when I needed reach.

I have the 200/2.8 and the 1.4x that came with it. I have used it on the EM1-mk2 and now the EM1-mk3. It works perfectly, IMO. I see no real change in focus speed or focusing in general. Of course you loose a little sharpness with a 1.4x as expected but the ease of use and consistency is just great. I reccomend it without hesitation.

 

[ac12]

I saw a Canon 70-200mm F4.0 full frame lens in a YouTube video just last night and it looked very reasonable. 70-200mm F2.8 might be excessive for a full frame system. It's sort of like that Four Thirds 35-100mm F2.0, maybe expecting too much, maybe unnecessarily for many people. I would be more than happy with a F4.0 zoom for full frame, especially at longer focal lengths, same way I would be more than happy with a F2.8 zoom for m4/3, but maybe that's just me (currently using 12-100mm F4.0!).

I agree about the FF f/4 lens.
Not all of us need the extra speed of the f/2.8 lens, or want to carry 2x the weight.

In my case, I really wanted the extra stop to f/2.8, but I was not willing to pay the price of 2x the weight.​

And once I stop shooting night games, I have nothing that calls for a f/2.8 lens.​

So Nikon needs to get a smaller/lighter Z 70-200/4 out, to fill that gap.

 

[Robstar1963]

@doady and @nstelemark
I have only purchased the 70-200 f2.8 because of getting the £560 discount and because it is extremely highly rated with regard to sharpness and image quality (some describe it as the best 70-200 ever made !)
I am really fussy about sharpness ( although you might not always realise this from some of my posts perhaps lol) and having a lens that good for my Speedway is very attractive as that is the one series of events where I get full rather than merely public access and can make the most of the vantage points I get
If not for the once only opportunity for that discount I would never have justified the cost of the lens - partly due to the size - but with the discount and potential to resell at minimal if not zero loss if I don’t get on with it it seemed like a no brainer to try it and I’m sure that based upon reviews I’ve read and watched that I will be more than impressed with the results
If so the size and weight will be worth the effort !
I definately do not look forward to holding that big lump up lol
I did look at the Canon equivalent 70-200 which is much more compact ( but extends for zooming unlike the internal zooming Nikon) but on balance I don‘t like the affordable R and RP bodies from Canon
My Z6 has only cost me about £1000 and has a better sensor
I certainly didn’t want to spend over twice as much on a Canon R6 which has only 20 MP compared to the 24 of the Nikon
One thing I found when researching is that FF cameras are very much compromised with regard to features in comparison with some of the better M43 bodies and you sometimes gain one feature or quality from one manufacturer but lose another compared to another manufacturer / model
Sony has great sensors and superior focussing but loses out on handling, weather sealing, menus, EVF and even firmware update procedures
Canon has good handling but inferior EVF, single card slots like the Z6 and inferior sensors (on the affordable bodies)
Nikon Z6/7 has single card slots, inferior (In some ways) focussing but very good sensors, very good ergonomics and handling (important for me with large hands) and amongst the best a EVFs available
Panasonic L has superb IBIS great video good handling but much bigger bodies with S1/S1R or very small inferior EVF on S5 and inferior focussing based upon CDAF/ DFD which just should no longer be the case with the systems they are competing against - if they had Hybrid CDAF / PDAF focussing I would have placed them higher in my reckoning

You have to weigh up what you want to compromise on and make the best of the overall compromise in design and with that you then have to perhaps compromise on the lenses within that system
The Canon design of the 70-200 with the focussing of the Sony’s, the handling and ergos of the Z6 and the IBIs of the Pana L Mount would be great all rolled into one but we have to make a choice

Also Nikon Z system lenses are designed from ground up with a completely new mount. This has resulted in a very highly rated set of lenses which is slowly growing but you also have the benefit of using F mount on the FTZ adapter
Also because of the Z mount being a completely new design the 1.4 and 2.0 TCs have been very highly rated in reviews thus far (described as performing exceptionally well)
With the performance of the 70-200 f2.8 providing a very good basis for use with a TC the resulting + TC images with it should also prove to be extremely good thereby providing increased versatility which was also one of my considerations for buying the lens
As mentioned before there is also the option of alternatively using a Z50 APSC body with the 70-200 (and any other Z Lens) to give a 1.5 x crop and focal length multiplyer further increasing versatility with the added bonus of a second (and smaller body) for smaller lenses at about the same cost (used) as a 1.4 TC

Don’t want to waffle on but having considered all these things and done all this research it seems a shame not to pass it all on to other interested members. - hopefully someone will gain something from my notes

 

[Robstar1963]

I have the 200/2.8 and the 1.4x that came with it. I have used it on the EM1-mk2 and now the EM1-mk3. It works perfectly, IMO. I see no real change in focus speed or focusing in general. Of course you loose a little sharpness with a 1.4x as expected but the ease of use and consistency is just great. I reccomend it without hesitation.

I think you’d find as I did and as @SpecFoto has that using the G9 with 1.4 converters with the Olympus lenses is a different matter as the G9 then lacks the DFD it relies upon to deliver its best results

 

[SpecFoto]

I have the 200/2.8 and the 1.4x that came with it. I have used it on the EM1-mk2 and now the EM1-mk3. It works perfectly, IMO. I see no real change in focus speed or focusing in general. Of course you loose a little sharpness with a 1.4x as expected but the ease of use and consistency is just great. I reccomend it without hesitation.

Thank you Chris for the confirmation. I had hoped that was the case as I remember Panasonic put out a FW upgrade for the new 200mm f2.8 specifically for the EM1.2 to make the AF work better. Did not see anything on the Panasonic FW support page about needing it for the EM1.3 so hopefully it is cooked into the camera.

 

[amit]

Hi @Brownie
Early days yet especially looking at the comparative size of that 70-200
It’s currently pouring with rain here so no opportunity or motivation to get out and about with the Z6

In any case I haven’t opened it yet as ive been pre occupied with a job interview which took place today
I was given redundancy notice for 31/10/20 from my current job (terminates at the end of furlough)
I’ve only just got home from the interview !
Didnt want to open the Nikon until the interview was done

It was with a previous employer but couldn’t take for granted - but got the job starting Monday - he had my new contract with him in an envelope and gave me the job on the spot

Did mention a couple of things above somewhere ref my M43 kit but anyway:-
Am going to keep my PL200mm f2.8 as this is nothing short of a stunning lens for sharpness, clarity and contrast, along with my EM1/2 body purchased on the free f1.2 offer.

Nikon FF super telephoto lenses would almost certainly be a step too far with regard to size and weight ?

I did like the EM1X with further limited use this year but was sold recently pending this decision and wanting to reduce my M43 investment

I also have an as yet unused 12-100 f4.0 - am debating getting the Nikon Z 23-200 to replace this but unsure following comments by @pdk42 who didn’t rate it but may not be too critical about it but will need to try out the system before deciding

Have the as yet Unused free with EM1/2 Olympus 45mm f1.2 as I was keeping this mint pending my decision with other formats as I can’t afford to keep everything. Pending my experience with the Z6

Also have an unused 300mm f4.0 PRO purchased at the beginning of Covid restrictions pending use with MSports but as events have been very much restricted decided to keep this unused pending the worldwide situation getting better. Have had no opportunity to use this at all so this will probably be going and will consider a 1.4 TC for the PL200 for near equivalent reach and aperture (With little loss in image quality)

I’d been given redundancy notice a while ago and since had been asked by a friend to shoot a set of family photos and perhaps her wedding

As a result and with a view to securing some income if I became unemployed which until recently has been an unfortunate prospect I was considering branching out into paid photography doing portraits, pet photos and whatever
Rightly or wrongly I considered it would be beneficial to have a full frame camera for this purpose so that was part of my recent decision making process

Now that I have secured a job with someone who I’ve worked for before (so feels like a secure position regardless of Covid) I probably won’t be branching out in this way
I will still be doing my friend’s family pictures and perhaps her wedding (date unknown) and look forward to using the Z6 for this - I’m currently assuming that the 24-70 f4.0 will produce acceptable results but also considering using the 45mm f1.2

Regardless of my situation changing I still want to go forward with the FF system as the above was not my only motivation as I’ve considered FF before and more so recently

Ive considered trying out DSLRs in the past but they didn’t really grab me so haven’t strayed from mirrorless having only tried out the Fuji X system last year which I really enjoyed
I would definitely consider that system again but trying out something different is attractive

I didn’t want to have missed at least trying out FF and I’m pretty sure I will be happy with the image quality and low light for speedway for example if it goes ahead in 2021
The focussing ability for fast action of my chosen camera is the main unknown quantity (along with the size and weight of the 70-200 f2.8 !)

I had decided to go M43 only this year due to financial considerations and got rid of my Fuji system

To be honest if the JIP takeover had been announced around the time that I made that decision I would probably have gone the other way and gone all out with Fuji to be on the safe side despite my continuing enthusiasm for M43 as the JIP takeover has nevertheless affected my confidence in the M43 system

The JIP situation has encouraged me to try another system as I don’t feel that having too much investment in M43 is prudent

Spreading my eggs into two baskets again perhaps only in the short term at least pending another decision on which way to go would seem to be sensible and I’ve spread the cost of the investment into FF by paying half now with half to pay in 12 months time and again having minimised the risk with the discounts

Enjoy your new camera.
What fuji gear did you used and how was it vs the olympus ? Why using fuji and olympus together?

 

[Robstar1963]

Thanks @amit
I used the Fuji XT3
JPEG Image quality was slightly but noticeably better with more leeway for processing with PS and PSExpress on iPad
Focussing for fast action Motorsports was better than the EM1/2 but perhaps not better than the stint I had with my second EM1X (I didn’t use my first EM1 X long enough to make the most of its abilities)

The EM1X proved to be very good at a local Motocross event this year and with a British GT Car racing event this year where the EM1X showed that it could enable me to concentrate on filling the frame whilst the camera locked on and focussed on the car - I got a much better rate of frame filled shots (which weren’t cut short at the edges)during this event and better than using the EM1/2 at the same event
Results whilst Panning with slow shutter speeds seemed to be much more successful than with the EM1/2

I used Fuji and Olympus at the same time partly because I was evaluating the Fuji system without having to commit to it before testing it against M43 and partly because both systems have advantages with regard to their own range of lenses - Olympus 300mm f4.0 and PL 200 f2.8 for example don’t have equivalents in the Fuji range
The Fuji 200mm f2.0 is circa £5000 and cannot hold a candle to the value offered by the Olympus 40-150 f2.8 PRO at circa £1000 or to the PL200 f2.8 (longer reach) which I purchased for £1300 with £300 cashback and a 3 year Panasonic Warranty (with 1.4 TC) last December
This is not a deal that is likely to be repeated so circa £1700 on an offer would be more realistic but still remarkable value compared to the 200mm f2.0 - the only telephoto prime from Fuji
The Olympus 12-100 is also not replicated within the Fuji (or any other) range and is another example of a lens unique to the M43 system
The Fuji XT3 was noticeably slow in operation compared to the EM1X which was super responsive in use
The Fuji Wi-fi transfer app is very poor and very slow compared to the Olympus version especially on the EM1X which was very fast to transfer images
The XT3 was devoid of IBIS which was a downside for some non motorsport scenarios in particular including street photography where I noticed lots of blurry photos in some low light situations - now addressed obviously by the XT4 and the upcoming XS10
Super-telephoto shots with the EM1X and EM1/2 with 300mm + 1.4 TC
(previously owned) were much easier to execute with the IBIS compared to using the XT3 and 100-400
Just a few notes - hope this helps

 

[Brownie]

Congrats on the job!

No idea what a Redundancy Notice is.

 

[Chris5107]

Thank you Chris for the confirmation. I had hoped that was the case as I remember Panasonic put out a FW upgrade for the new 200mm f2.8 specifically for the EM1.2 to make the AF work better. Did not see anything on the Panasonic FW support page about needing it for the EM1.3 so hopefully it is cooked into the camera.

I did not see anything about firmware needed for the M1mk3. Performance of the lens has been similar from my use on the M1mk2 and mk3 with the same (latest) firmware.

 

[moonraker]

Congrats on the job!

No idea what a Redundancy Notice is.

Essentially it’s the employer giving notice of laying off an employee

 

[Robstar1963]

Congrats on the job!

No idea what a Redundancy Notice is.

1. Thanks @Brownie
2. It felt like impending doom in the current severely Covid affected jobs market but I was very lucky having this lead back to another previous employer and I have a huge sense of relief at getting another job which commences Immediately after my furlough finishes (and when the redundancy would have taken effect)

 

[comment23]

Congratulations on the job ?

 

[n3eg]

I have a FF DSLR in my collection, the Kodak DCS PRO SLR/14nx. I got it mainly for my Kodak collection. It's big, but still not as huge as a single digit D Nikon or Canon. The RAWs are amazing, and it takes almost every AF Nikon lens out there, even the old in-camera motor ones. Still, I use my E-M5 III for everything serious - FF does not suit my shooting style.

 

[Kae1]

Congratulations on your new job, Rob - it's great that you've found a new job in these strange times.

I hope the job involves producing detailed research and analysis for business cases as you've certainly done an excellent example for your new photographic venture .

Hopefully the weather will improve and you'll be able to test your new equipment soon. Glad to see that you still have a place for m4/3 in your motorsport photography!

I don't know what's going to happen with allowing spectators to attend "Elite" motorsport in 2021. I see that dates for next year have already been announced for British Superbikes and BGTs, but it's hard to see that we'll be allowed to attend without instant testing or mass vaccination - but we can only hope. In the meantime you've got your new venture to keep your shutter finger active.

Best of luck for Monday

 

[Robstar1963]

Congratulations on your new job, Rob - it's great that you've found a new job in these strange times.

I hope the job involves producing detailed research and analysis for business cases as you've certainly done an excellent example for your new photographic venture .

Hopefully the weather will improve and you'll be able to test your new equipment soon. Glad to see that you still have a place for m4/3 in your motorsport photography!

I don't know what's going to happen with allowing spectators to attend "Elite" motorsport in 2021. I see that dates for next year have already been announced for British Superbikes and BGTs, but it's hard to see that we'll be allowed to attend without instant testing or mass vaccination - but we can only hope. In the meantime you've got your new venture to keep your shutter finger active.

Best of luck for Monday

Thanks @Kae1 ?
As it happens I’ve just added a comment on your post on Cadwell
Got an impending delivery notification today for my Nikon 70-200 f2.8 which is good timing as there is one potential Motorsports event left for me to go to at the weekend - Truck Racing - not normally my cup of tea but as long as the weather clears up (very heavy rain here today again) then that would be a good opportunity to try out the Z6
Expect a picture on here of a dustbin sized lens in the next couple of days ???

Hopefully the powers that be will realise next year if Covid is still around, that a few thousand people in a 10 acre field watching motorsports is actually a lower and more manageable risk than letting people socialise in pubs and restaurants and travel on public transport and planes !!!