GM1 to replace GF1?

Discussion in 'Panasonic Cameras' started by itami, Jan 14, 2016.

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  1. itami

    itami New to Mu-43

    7
    Jul 10, 2015
    UK
    My Panasonic GF1 is probably the nicest camera I've ever used (with the exception of the Nikon 35mm SLR I owned years ago). However, I recognise that it's a bit long in the tooth now so I'm thinking of replacing* it. I've also got a G6 which is my current "serious" camera so I'm thinking of another small body for everyday carry and holidays etc. Is the GM1 a worthy successor? I know it hasn't got all the direct controls of the GF1 or G series but it's much newer inside. It seems GM1s can be had quite cheap now.

    BTW, I've never used Olympus m4/3s so I'm not at all familiar with what's available but I keep an open mind.

    * when I wrote replace, I really mean "semi-retire" ;).
     
  2. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    Hi
    I think about the same thing from to time to time and usually come back to "there is really noting wrong with my GF-1 and everything I see and read makes me skeptical that I will see any difference in images.

    I have a lot of "muscle memory" in years of using the GF and can operate almost everything without looking at the body.

    Perhaps a metric "bees-dick"difference in IQ and Noise. If I dropped and broke my GF-1 , then perhaps, but as it happens I have a GH 1 and so can share batteries and charger.

    When I look at DxO I see the same old thing that measured ISO is higher than actual setting, so with same lens same aperture to get the same shutter speed you can use 200ISO on the GF-1 but need 400ISO on the GM ... meaning the spec tests showing better noise on the GM at same ISO is just pissing in your pocket.
    24374468735_021a34878e_b.

    Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 vs Panasonic Lumix DMC GF1 | DxOMark
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
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  3. carlosfm

    carlosfm Mu-43 Veteran

    230
    Oct 3, 2015
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Very interesting!
    I love my G1. :biggrin:
     
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  4. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    I'm gonna say you would indeed see an image quality improvement. I never used a GF1 but I did use a GF3 and an Olympus EP1 (also a first generation camera) and the GM series cameras are a lot better. Speed of operation and feature set are where they jump ahead the furthest, though. At the current price a GM1 can be had for, it's a no-brainer for a small, carry-everywhere camera.
     
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  5. carlosfm

    carlosfm Mu-43 Veteran

    230
    Oct 3, 2015
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Speed of operation? Feature set?
    I bet that I can activate and deactivate the self-timer faster on my G1 that on a GM1.
    About the new features, I don't know what can be missing, probably because I don't miss anything.
    Maybe the new viewfinders are better, but the GM1 doesn't have one.
     
  6. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    I really don't know why you're arguing the G1 being superior to modern M43 cameras, but... Shot to shot time, SD card write time, raw record speed, buffer, lack of shutter shock issues, larger files with more exposure latitude, better LCD and menu system...
     
  7. carlosfm

    carlosfm Mu-43 Veteran

    230
    Oct 3, 2015
    Lisbon, Portugal
    I'm not arguing it is superior, I just found it strange that the GM1 could have better "speed of operation and feature set"...
    I guess we all have different priorities.
    I don't doubt that in many ways things have improved.
     
  8. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    Most would say those are precisely the areas a new-generation M4/3 camera would trump a first-generation one. I was trying to be specific there, that's why I was surprised
     
  9. Generationfourth

    Generationfourth Mu-43 Regular

    172
    Sep 11, 2015
    I love my GF1 and used it up until may of last year.

    When I updated I sprung for the GM5 as it has similar controls to the GF1 (rear thumbwheel with 2 modes). And it had the added bonus of an EVF among other things.

    I'd look into waiting for the price to drop, or finding one used.
     
  10. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    Hi

    I'd say that you'll see something minor but only at 100% magnification and only visible on prints that are huge on side by side close inspection. The "improvements" seem largely in the cunning application of post processing in the cameras to make the JPG's that 99% of people see ... they don't really show up so clearly in RAW.

    both the GF3 and EP1 are notably differently tuned sensors ... there is a reason why many loved the GF1 right into the production of the GX series. If you examine the data presented at DxO the show that the GF3 (in comparison to the GF1) is indeed sensor tuned differently.

    Panasonic Lumix DMC GF3 vs Panasonic Lumix DMC GF1 | DxOMark

    Panasonic realised that by giving people better than they were expecting (higher shutter speeds for a selected ISO) they were giving spec sheet gazers and marketing at Oly an advantage ... so they put their ISO ratings down a notch to make it seem that there was less noise at ISO 800 than last year (when last years ISO 400 was actually this years ISO800)

    Here is a comparison between my GH1 and my mates EM5 ...
    in my view ...: Generations - GH1 vs E-M5
    all the differences were largely in JPG and when processing the RAW files the differences reduced to minor percentages.

    You'll also note that if you try to use the DPReview image comparitor to pixel peep you will not see the GH1 anymore, even on their older GH2 test (which it was once on) its been discontinued.

    I suspect this is deliberate to disencourage people from seeing that the differences are marginal.

    Another interesting read is here:
    in my view ...: fudging figures (and fooling spec sheet gazers)

    I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that the GF1 is better than a modern generation camera, only that its hard to justify the upgrade based on what you'll see in www pictures or on prints, especially with a little LR work (which people will likely do anyway). To me most people update their m43 camera for reasons other than any shortcoming in the images

    The main benefits I've argued here of keeping my GF1 is that I know it like the back of my hand and I don't need to spend time faffing about with it to take a shot. So in that view of things (not the stopwatch turn it on time) its faster for us who know it from years of working with it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
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  11. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    Hi

    I would agree with you , ... its just that I don't think there is a lot of strong evidence to support the view that "most people" have with respect to image results. So unless you bring in other factors like
    • entry into the system (in which case buy new has merit)
    • specific needs such as weather sealing
    • desire operational features of the newer cameras (such as 4K video)
    • aesthetics of the newer cameras
    • desire for IBIS
    • HDR modes and other exposure "features"

    from a straight image perspective if you took the time to shoot the same thing with the same lens at (more or less) the same time on a tripod that you would be unlikely to be able to tell which 17 inch wide was which

    For instance I doubt that any m43 camera would have significantly made this image better.
    13506825074_f2739f3076_o.

    In short I'm saying that what's old isn't always inferior and changing to whats new doesn't always make a big difference to your photography

    Best Wishes
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
  12. Bruce McL

    Bruce McL Mu-43 Veteran

    If you will use this new camera for a long time, it may be worth spending a bit more up front. I'm a recent GM5 owner, and I really like the camera. The EVF is very useful; I don't think I will buy another general purpose camera without one. I don't need a pop-up flash, which the GM1 has and the GM5 does not. In online discussions I have read, people talk about the rear adjustment dial being annoyingly loose on the GM1, making the camera not so pleasant to use. The dial is tight on the GM5.

    As far as image quality goes, you can find RAW files for both the GM1 and GM5 on a couple of the review sites: photographyblog and imaging-resource. Playing with the RAW files in your own development environment may be helpful. It's something I always do before buying a new camera.
     
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  13. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    Hi

    I actually think this is the most compelling feature ... its what I struggle most with my GF1 (getting older my eyes won't focus close) and why I often reach for my GH1 instead ... that EVF.
     
  14. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    I definitely don't regret swapping my GM1 for a GM5. It's become one of my favorite cameras ever, but for those who aren't willing to front the price difference between the two, the GM1 is a fantastic bargain. Some folks are perfectly fine with the LCD-only composition.
     
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  15. carlosfm

    carlosfm Mu-43 Veteran

    230
    Oct 3, 2015
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Guess what, my old Kodak P880 has always had - and still has - out of camera (jpeg) wonderful colours, specially the skin tones are great. Kodak knew a thing or two about getting the colours right.
    In this respect I must even say that they don't make'em as they used to!
    100_2531.JPG

    100_2532.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
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  16. Biro

    Biro Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 8, 2011
    Jersey Shore
    Steve
    I honestly think a GF1 user would be happier with a GM5 than a GM1.
     
  17. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    If you're comfortable composing on an LCD, the GM1 is still a step up in other ways.
     
  18. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    You might consider the GX1. It was honestly the true successor to the original GF1. It is a bit older, too, but it has the same sensor as the G6 and just as many (if not more) controls and features.

    You can get them for under $200 used, easy.


    If you want a good deal on something a bit more modern, there are some links for clearance E-P5 in the Hot Deals section.
     
  19. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    I wouldn't get the GX1, honestly. I used one for a long time and I have to concede that the shutter shock was a real issue (shutter was a beast for some reason on that camera) and the jpeg colors were frustrating. It was definitely an early and imperfect rendition of the 16MP sensor.
     
  20. D MATIC

    D MATIC Mu-43 Regular

    144
    Jul 18, 2012
    I still have my GF1. I have also had the GF2, GX1, GM1 and now the GM5. I've given away my GF2, my GX1 was stolen, and sold my GM1. It really depends on the features you think are important to you.
    • GF2 smaller, tiltable flash, touch screen, add-on evf is small.
    • GX1 grip, tiltable flash, touch screen, better iso performance at iso 800, add on evf is large.
    • GM1 tiny (almost too small), separate grip accessory, scroll wheel hard to use, touch screen, no hotshoe, no ISO button, no add-on evf, better iso at 1600, silent shutter, max flash sync only 1/50, wifi connect to phone.
    • GM5 same as GM1 except moved scroll wheel back to normal and has original ISO button, added EVF, No built in flash. Slightly larger which is better, but still much smaller than GF1.

    lumix-g.

    I love the GM5, the only thing I hate is the sync flash being only 1/50. Here is a pic of mine:

    gm5-thumb-grip-3.
     
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