GM1 mechanical shutter doesn't work with manual/adapted lenses !

dolbydunn

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Finally, about these lenses being "dumb" I beg to differ. In 10 years from now what will become of an $800 Olympus 75/1.8 lens? Will m4/3s be around? The lens will vignette on APS cameras, even if they mounted, which they don't.
I agree with your question here. I have asked myself the same question. We know from experience that today's computer is tomorrow's trash. Our latest m43 cameras might be irrelevant in 10 years but our lenses don't have to be.

BTW when I use the term "dumb" lenses I am only referring to the lens' inability to "communicate" with the camera.

Most of our "modern" m43 lenses are AF & IS . . . (computerized). How many 10 year old computerized gadgets still have any relevance? I can't think of even ONE, 10 year old computerized gadget that I would want to depend upon.

Because of this concern I am convinced that even the BEST of new lenses with AF or IS or both, will absolutely diminish in value and relevance, MUCH FASTER than the Voigtlander lenses, made without electronics, made of durable metal, and MADE FOR our m43 cameras. I have several nice AF & OIS lenses but I will probably begin to take a more serious look at the Voigtlanders.

People can experiment with their cameras all they want. It doesn't confront me if someone wants to TIG-weld a bazooka to the GM1.

As the owner of a GM1 & a former camera repairman, I believe the camera is tiny, PERFECT as shipped and should be treated accordingly.
 

RnR

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Hm. Well that's no good. Aren't there silly restrictions for the electronic shutter, also? Like a minimum ISO of 1600? Or is that just on the GH3?
Thats just the GH3 (and the G5/G6 I think). GM1 has 3200 for min ISO for the electronic shutter.
 

John-A

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Hm. Well that's no good. Aren't there silly restrictions for the electronic shutter, also? Like a minimum ISO of 1600? Or is that just on the GH3?
No ISO restrictions with electronic shutter on GM1, you can go up to ISO 25600 if you want..
 

dolbydunn

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Hm. Well that's no good. Aren't there silly restrictions for the electronic shutter, also? Like a minimum ISO of 1600? Or is that just on the GH3?
Hey beanedsprout . . . Looks like we are neighbors! What part of North Central Ohio? . . . . Bay Village, here!

BTW, I don't care a thing about what camera a person uses, or even if he ever takes a picture.
 

RoadTraveler

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Cross GM1 off my list! I'll just have to buy its little lens separately and pop 'er on a PM2!
My thinking is very similar… I'd like to use the 12-32 lens a bit as an everyday compact (on a GX1) and see if I like it better than the 14-42 PZ. Though now I'm thinking less about getting a kit combo and just waiting for the unwanted, 12-32 kits lenses to be plentiful and less expensive.
 

RoadTraveler

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snip...

However, the Voigtländer 25mm 0.95 fits suprisingly well on it, adding nothing to the height of the camera (unlike the Pana 25mm 1.4), and is a joy to use with focus peaking (and occasionnaly the "loupe" which can be conveniently brought up by double tapping anywhere on the screen).
And I bet the fairly compact and light SLR Magic 12mm T1.6 Hyperprime would 'fit' the little GM1 nicely as well. :smile:
 

RoadTraveler

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snip...
Because of this concern I am convinced that even the BEST of new lenses with AF or IS or both, will absolutely diminish in value and relevance, MUCH FASTER than the Voigtlander lenses, made without electronics, made of durable metal, and MADE FOR our m43 cameras. I have several nice AF & OIS lenses but I will probably begin to take a more serious look at the Voigtlanders.snip...
x2

Good theory…as long as there are m4/3 bodies made that will accept manual glass, these fast primes likely do have a longer usable life than the autofocus lenses. There's less to go wrong with the lenses themselves, on top of any [computer] interface concerns.
 

usayit

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Interesting design and limits of the GM1. Almost validates the viability for a MFT sensor equipped fixed lens compact built ground up to further the design in terms of compactness, feature and quality. Kinda like what Sony accomplished with the RX1 using their full frame sensors. What did limitation that did leave me scratching my head was the 1/50th flash sync speed with no hotshe. That's a pretty severe limitation for those that use strobes. Heck my old cloth shutter cameras can do better.

Furthermore, other cameras marketed a electronic shutter as the means to achieve insanely high flash sync speeds which really opens up the creative flexibility with strobes. In this case it resulted in the opposite.

Sorry a little OT but it was thoughts that came to mind...
 

tjdean01

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Feb 20, 2013
Messages
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I agree with your question here. I have asked myself the same question. We know from experience that today's computer is tomorrow's trash. Our latest m43 cameras might be irrelevant in 10 years but our lenses don't have to be.

BTW when I use the term "dumb" lenses I am only referring to the lens' inability to "communicate" with the camera.

Most of our "modern" m43 lenses are AF & IS . . . (computerized). How many 10 year old computerized gadgets still have any relevance? I can't think of even ONE, 10 year old computerized gadget that I would want to depend upon.

Because of this concern I am convinced that even the BEST of new lenses with AF or IS or both, will absolutely diminish in value and relevance, MUCH FASTER than the Voigtlander lenses, made without electronics, made of durable metal, and MADE FOR our m43 cameras. I have several nice AF & OIS lenses but I will probably begin to take a more serious look at the Voigtlanders.

People can experiment with their cameras all they want. It doesn't confront me if someone wants to TIG-weld a bazooka to the GM1.

As the owner of a GM1 & a former camera repairman, I believe the camera is tiny, PERFECT as shipped and should be treated accordingly.
Thanks for this nice reply. I never really thought about the electronics in the lenses becoming obsolete with newer upcoming bodies, but now that you mention it, you're right, the Voigtlanders really could be more future-proof than the computerized AF lenses. With several cameras being released each year and all the current available lenses, I really don't think they're going to stop making m4/3s bodies for some time to come. If sensor sizes trend smaller, our m4/3s size image-disk lenses will be good. If they trend larger, up to full frame or APS, then only the adapted lenses we use will work, which is why I didn't mind paying $200 for that Vivitar 28/2 because in another 10 years I'm sure I can sell it for what I paid. The 45/1.8, however, might lose value quickly if it stops working with current bodies.

The big reason I buy adapted lenses is price, variety, experiementation. If you have 20 lenses, how often can you use each? I haven't used my 40-150 since the summer because I have 3 135s! And I want the 75, but $800 for something I use 10% of the time? I don't think it's a good idea until my money situation is different. What's that adapted 75, the Cosmicar? I've seen prices from $50 to $300 on ebay, so I know there are different versions, but I don't know which is which so I gave up looking! :(
 

kwalsh

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Sorry to revive a dead thread, but found it Googling for something else and it looks like no one gave a satisfactory answer...

The reason for the restriction to E-shutter only when shooting lenses with no electrical contacts is that in order for the GM1/GM5 mechanical shutter to properly expose it needs to know some information about the lens attached - most especially the aperture being shot. The issue is that the mechanical shutter in these cameras is actually an electrical first curtain and a mechanical second curtain. Because the electronic curtain operates on the sensor itself and the mechanical curtain is quite some distance in front of the shutter for a large aperture lens the "shadows" of the two curtains are very different. Specifically the electronic curtain of course has no shadow at all, but the mechanical curtain has a shadow that depends on the aperture and exit pupil of the lens. When both curtains are mechanical this isn't an issue as of course the shadows of the two curtains while unknown are identical and so there is no exposure error. But when one is electrical and the other mechanical the electrical curtain has to be adjusted to properly follow the shadow of the mechanical shutter. If you don't do this you will get exposure errors - especially at higher shutter speeds.

The newer Olympus cameras that have the "0 sec Anti Shock" option implement an electronic first curtain and they restrict it to shutter speeds of 1/320 or slower to avoid this problem. Many Sony cameras have an electronic first curtain option that the user can turn on or off depending on the lens and shutter speed used. The manual for the Sony cameras specifically recommends not using it with older manual lenses nor at high shutter speeds with any lens.

It looks like Panasonic took a conservative approach here and just disables it entirely with adapted lenses. It would have been nicer to have given the user some more control in my opinion.

As to why it uses the mechanical with flash well that's because the flash is timed to expose when both curtains are fully open anyway - no shadows to deal with at all.
 
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