G9 and image noise

Ziggy

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Tests have shown some pretty impressive performance in dynamic range and signal to noise ratio in the G9 compared eg with the EM1-II and Nikon D500. Panasonic Lumix G9 review

The D500 has similar pixel numbers but on an APS-C sensor they're bigger.
So Panasonic is doing some neat things processing the analogue data from the photosites.

One of the other interesting points made in that review is that Adobe Camera Raw (and I'm assuming that engine also underlies LR and Photoshop) produces much noisier results with high ISO images than Silkypix.

A new version of Silkypix Pro was recently released.

Something worth experimenting with.
Download | SILKYPIX
 
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Ziggy

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See if you can tell ... IS0 6400, underexposed image, converted to high quality JPEG without editing on my part:

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)


Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
 

retiredfromlife

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The only thing I can comment on is the text on the page. Blurry on both images but better on the second image. Would focus have been the same for both images?
The surround on the door handle also looks to have more detail in the second image.
 

Ziggy

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It's the same RAW file 'developed' in the two converters and exported to JPEG. The two produced quite different sized files and one of them was too large to upload here so I had to drop the pixel count by 20%. The other program had export options I don't understand so I just ran with the defaults.
I'm not sure whether this post helps to settle the question, as exporting and display on other devices adds other effects. When I go back and display the original images in their software windows on my 1920x1200 monitor there are clear differences. The first when magnified has a mix of blotches and orange peel effect while the second is more uniformly grainy. The first is produced by SilkyPix, the second by Lightroom. That one looks shall I say less bad than the first though both are ugly.
When PhotoLab releases a profile for the G9 I'll repeat the exercise.
 

gcogger

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Yes, the first one appears to have rather heavy handed noise reduction, and less contrast, compared to the second. It seems like there's a big difference in the default settings for the two converters, so hard to compare them fairly. Have you tried turning down the noise reduction in SilkyPix (or turning it up in Lightroom), and seeing how they compare in that case?
 

Ziggy

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SilkyPix I have no experience with but it seems to be set quite high (c. 80). When turned down the result is more blotches.
Turning some Luminance NR on in LR reduces the grain revealing subtle blotches in the wall colour.
 

retiredfromlife

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Looking at the images on my home monitor the bottom one looks to have more detail or sharper around the light switch and door handle. the top image looks softer all over. I prefer the extra sharpness [or detail] of the second image over any noise or colour caste between the two.
I suppose that is why it is so subjective some times.

Good that you posted the two images as it shows the difference between software programs
 
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At $180 USD (19,800 JPY listed price on SilkyPix's website), why purchase it over DXO PhotoLab, which retails for $200 (Elite edition, the one you want), and regularly goes on sale for $150?

Granted, DXO doesn't yet support the G9, but with the current restructuring efforts, support for the camera should arrive next month. You also get their fantastic PRIME NR, built-in lens profiles & sharpening, and U-point technology for local editing.

I'm curious what would make SilkyPix a more entertaining software than DXO PL, given how similar they are in pricing?
 

Ziggy

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Looking at the images on my home monitor the bottom one looks to have more detail or sharper around the light switch and door handle. the top image looks softer all over. I prefer the extra sharpness [or detail] of the second image over any noise or colour caste between the two.
I suppose that is why it is so subjective some times.

Good that you posted the two images as it shows the difference between software programs
The display influences what we get as well.
My computer monitor is a calibrated 1900x1200 and the image colour and grain is noticeably different from my 8" tablet (1500x2000). It's not my patch but I gather downsampling increases sharpness and maybe therefore makes grain worse.
 

speedy

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At $180 USD (19,800 JPY listed price on SilkyPix's website)
Because you don't pay $180 USD for it. I paid (I think) $46 AUD for the previous version, & about $47 AUD for the current G9 supporting version. I far prefer the colours it produces over LR6. Yes, there is a learning curve, which takes a while to get your head around. Haven't touched LR for ages now.
 

retiredfromlife

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Because you don't pay $180 USD for it. I paid (I think) $46 AUD for the previous version, & about $47 AUD for the current G9 supporting version. I far prefer the colours it produces over LR6. Yes, there is a learning curve, which takes a while to get your head around. Haven't touched LR for ages now.
Does SilkyPix have the ability to extract the 4K/6K photos from the videos captured in camera easily?
 

speedy

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While I think of it, if anyone is a bit interested in SilkyPix Pro developer 8, I could write a really really quick & dirty primer on how to best get started using the software to develop Panny raw files. SP really is quite a bit different in the way you go about it. I'm certainly no expert, but I've tinkered with SP now for about 3 or 4 previous versions.
 

retiredfromlife

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While I think of it, if anyone is a bit interested in SilkyPix Pro developer 8, I could write a really really quick & dirty primer on how to best get started using the software to develop Panny raw files. SP really is quite a bit different in the way you go about it. I'm certainly no expert, but I've tinkered with SP now for about 3 or 4 previous versions.
I would be interested. I notice you can get a trial so it may be good to give it a go
 

Machi

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ests have shown some pretty impressive performance in dynamic range and signal to noise ratio in the G9 compared eg with the EM1-II and Nikon D500. Panasonic Lumix G9 review
Their results look very suspicious as they are significantly different than results of other reviewers (DXO Mark, optyczne, Photonstophotos etc).
It looks to me like they did their measurements for (not only) deBayered images but also denoised images ("We did note that Adobe Camera Raw produces much noisier high-ISO results than Panasonic’s own Raw software, though").
Such results are seriously skewed by RAW processor and they are not valid for the camera's sensor.
 

SpecFoto

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I just downloaded SilkyPix yesterday. Didn't have to pay for it however, using the link in the G9 manual I was able to get a free version, 4.4, that works with the latest Panasonic camera and the G9, GX9 and GH5S are on the list. It say it works with Panasonic photos only and other jpegs or raw photos won't be recognized. Maybe this is the version Panasonic includes in the camera box in some countries, but in the US there is no software included with the G9. It's pretty basic software but is able to load large folders of photos without "importing" them and on my MacPro (2012 hex core) is pretty fast. 1,000 photos loaded in about 30 seconds, vs at least 5 to 8 minutes importing in LR. Upon reopening today, there is no "recent" folder link, so you have to reopen the photos and it took just a bit less than 30 seconds again.

Why I tried SilkyPix is that I am looking for a program that will allow me to see the AF point the camera used in taking the photo. Unfortunately it seems SilkyPix does not do this. LR has a plug-in that works for Canon/Nikon, but not Panasonic. Anyone aware of a application that will allow me to see the AF point when the photo was taken with the G9?
 

speedy

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I just downloaded SilkyPix yesterday. Didn't have to pay for it however, using the link in the G9 manual I was able to get a free version, 4.4,
The free version is awful. It's enough to put anyone off the software. Developer Pro is much much much better. It doesn't show you the actual focus point, but has a focus peaking feature that shows you the focus plane.
 
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