Fuji X-T2 launched

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by pdk42, Jul 7, 2016.

  1. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. 50orsohours

    50orsohours Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 13, 2013
    Portland Oregon
    Do you think it is better than the camera you returned? :)

    Beyond all the hype, no camera will turn my snaps into work of art. :(
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Fuji continues to get better than ever, but the lack of touchscreens and IBIS are still dealbreakers for me. That's aside from the price on their cameras and lenses, which is simply beyond what I choose to spend on my cameras. Just a bit too high up that curve of diminishing returns for my liking.

    The new 24MP sensor is miles better than what I've seen from Fuji before, and goes a long way to mitigate the liabilities of the X-Trans CFA, but it's still difficult for me to see any advantage compared to a traditional Bayer sensor, especially a FF one (given the price point it compares against).

    Still, I like the ergonomic tweaks they've done. The dual-flip screen is really nice looking, and the joystick goes part of the way to compensating for the lack of a touchscreen. They've also improved on their dial layouts to make them less fiddly, from the looks of things.

    Still would feel like an ergonomic downgrade to me compared to my GX7, and at this point the feel of my cameras is just as important as the (frankly, not very different) image quality you get across the market.
     
  4. AlanU

    AlanU Mu-43 Veteran

    484
    May 2, 2012
    Even if Dan is a Fuji fan he sound reasonable in how he describes the XT2. The XT2 has been in my on my radar and looks like I'll without picking it up in the near future. The example of ISO 12800 is adequate for print. I think shooting ISO 6400 will be a very usable clean file for clients. Dual slots!!! Awesomeness!!!!!!! Killer buffer!!!

    I'm looking forward in playing with the fresh batch of M43 and the XT2 at my local camera store. The EM1 mk2 will no doubt be more feature rich.

    The world of camera's is absolutely ridiculous now!! The beauty of the massive improvements in iso, resolution and dynamic range is that the skills of a person can still have a huge separation between other photographers as far as imagery is concerned. Sounds like AF is less of an issue with the Fuji line.

    These are exciting times for any photographer looking into buying tools.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    The X-T2 is certainly an interesting camera, but the launch price is a bit eye watering. Through some of the forums and threads I've been reading, people are a bit shocked at the price. Many were thinking it would be about $1,500, but at $1,700 Fuji seems to really be testing the waters, seeing what people will pay. Some features of the X-T2 I really like are:
    • 24MP 3:2 sensor. Most of the shots I take are cropped 3:2 anyways, resulting in a 14MP file. Having an additional 10MP of resolution, couple with the quality of the sensor really makes it appeaing
    • EVF still has the same great magnification (larger than the E-M1's), but a faster refresh rate
    • Rear LCD design is a best-of-both-worlds, for flip out and fully articulating users
    • AF joy stick helps mitigate the lack of a touch screen. Most of my touchscreen use is for AF point selection, so while the joystick still isn't as useful, it is very nice. Especially for when you have the camera up to you eye
    • 4K & 1080p video @ 100 Mbps. Yes, there is a 10 minute limit on 4K with only a single battery, but I manage to do just fine with the 5 minute limit on my RX100M4, so the 10 minute limit isn't a big deal IMO. It's a bummer that the camera doesn't have 1080p @ 96 fps or 120 fps for slow-mo, but 60 fps can still be slowed down nicely in post. Assuming that quality doesn't suck (and the X-Pro 2 isn't bad), having 4K coupled with Fuji's film simulations is a very nice feature to have (though they only used a 2.5mm mic input :facepalm:)
    • Dual card slot is a nice addition for those who shoot weddings and want to have a redundant backup
    It's certainly a nice camera, and I'm currently in the process of slimming down my gear and putting the money I get from selling stuff in to my "photography" account. I'll still wait until Photokina to make any decisions on what I'll do (I'm looking forward to seeing the GH5, E-M1 II, and PRO prime lenses), but if I'm not that impressed with what I see from the m43 manufacturers I may see what kind of deals are out there towards the end of the year (discount on X-T2 and lenses, another benefit of the X-T2 coming out in September compared to the m43 cameras announced in September and rumored to have their launch delayed until early 2017 due to the earthquake in Japan).

    I'll look forward to reading reviews as people start to get these in their hands.
     
  6. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    I guess you mean the A7Rii? Well - I didn't say that ;). Nor did I say I'd be buying the new Fuji either. I'm very content with u43 right now. But... the XT2 will be competing against the E-M1ii, so Olympus have their work cut out.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. rezatravilla

    rezatravilla Mu-43 Top Veteran

    533
    Aug 7, 2013
    Indonesia
    Reza Travilla

    Still they don't have 5 axis like on the most current Olympus Body, Post Focus's feature like on the Panasonic Lumix GX85, don't have live composite, focus stacking etc etc etc.

    Fuji is just it. So far it's out of my radar :popcorm2:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. bigboysdad

    bigboysdad Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 25, 2013
    Sydney/ London
    The X-T1 looks good enough for me to be honest, just like my E-P5 is good enough for me at the moment. Probably lucky I didn't get into the Fuji system, I'd have spent a fortune on lenses, both their excellent native ones and legacies.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    True, but they also have the best EVF in the business, what appears to be the best C-AF system among any mirrorless offering yet, the best JPEG's in the business, a series of ultra-fast (f/1.4 or faster) prime lenses, better resolution than current m43 cameras (the new 24MP X-Trans without any AA delivers some fantastically sharp images), excellent high ISO performance, etc.

    So while there may not be a lot that interests you, there are a lot of areas where Fuji has a potential leg up on the m43 manufacturers. Also, Fuji will have this camera out in September, rather than announcing in September and potentially missing the holiday season like Panasonic and Olympus are rumored to due to their reliance on the Sony sensor.

    Also, if Fuji is of no interest to you, why bother taking the time to come in here an post? Were you really that bored and/or unoccupied?
     
  10. robcee

    robcee Mu-43 Veteran

    289
    Jan 10, 2016
    Toronto
    Rob Campbell
    if I weren't invested in m43, I would probably be a fuji shooter. I like what they've done with their system and they have some killer lenses.

    I'd certainly miss IBIS and some of the cool long exposure / composite features on the Olympus.

    Come on, Photokina, bring us the EM1mkII! I'm dying to see the spec sheet. Literally dying. :sleep:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    The Fuji does a lot of things right, but I'm not sure that those specific points are valid. The Leica Q and SL definitely both have better EVFs, but on the more attainable side of things, the current consensus seems to be that the GX8 has the best EVF on an ILC, bar none. And the A6300, and possibly even the A7r II, already have significantly better C-AF than the X-Pro2, so it would be surprising if this new camera was able to leapfrog them. In terms of resolution, the 24MP X-Trans doesn't resolve any better at 3400 lw/ph than the 20MP sensor in the GX8 (3600 lw/ph) or PEN F (at least according to amateurphotographer.co.uk's empirical measurements), which isn't surprising because the resolution of the 16MP X-Trans sensor lagged the 16MP M4/3 sensors. High ISO performance is indeed good due to the pre-processing that happens to demosaic the X-Trans array, but mostly it makes for very clean chroma noise, which is easy to eliminate with little consequence in any PP software. No denying the fast primes that Fuji has if you've got the dough for them, and JPEGs are probably decent if you're into shooting JPEGs. In DPReview's preview though, I couldn't find a single JPEG that they shot that looked better than the quick job they did processing from RAW, even using ACR.
     
  12. mesmerized

    mesmerized Mu-43 Veteran

    344
    Jun 18, 2012
    Out of curiosity... Do you think E-M1mk2 will be able to compete against X-T2 in terms of noise levels? How I wish Olympus built a FF camera! :)
     
  13. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    I wouldn't expect so. Nor would I even expect that it would have better autofocus, necessarily. I would say that it will be more responsive, have excellent IBIS, have better weather sealing, and be able to deliver high resolution images in static scenes with the 50MP mode, and probably better detail in regular shots anyway due to the Bayer colour filter array.

    Most importantly, an E-M1 II will be able to use all the excellent M4/3 lenses you already have, whereas no Fuji model will. Image quality over all wouldn't be the reason I'd pick either one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. AlanU

    AlanU Mu-43 Veteran

    484
    May 2, 2012
    The beauty of competition is that it stimulates camera manufacturers to ramp up in performance.

    The X-T2 certainly shows that fuji was actually listening to their customers. We can always complain or have personal preferences so this is our choice in the tools we use.

    Panasonic is a good example of a company that listens to their customers. The GH2 has transformed and evolved into the gh4 (beast) as far as killer video rig. The feature rich gh4 is incredible but Panny still has the limitation of physical limitations in sensor size and current sensor technology for demanding (in the dark) low light video.

    Sounds like the jump in sensor performance was substantial with fuji's new 24mpx sensor. This was what I waited for in the M43 world but it never happened in the 20mpx sensor. The new new Fuji 24 mpx sensor is really making fuji users extremely happy with the current xpro2.

    Currently in Canada the price of the X-T2 will be $1950 for body only. This price is certainly a lot of money but worth it from what I see so far in performance and most of all IQ from a crop sensor. In time Fuji rebates will kick in to soften the pain in purchasing this body. Even though I want the XT2 my priority camera gear shortlist will make me purchase other gear before this killer fuji body.

    I think the EM1 mk2 has a lot to fear in the competition in the mirrorless world . I do think the GH5 will be a clear winner in one of the most feature rich performer in video and on top of the game in stills in the M43 platform.

    On the basis of high iso, dynamic range and IQ the fuji seems to be more of a competitor to FF. Yes it's close to FF but no match however it's just another tool in photography. X-T2 is definitely a potent tool for a skilled user.
     
  15. dalto

    dalto Mu-43 Regular

    186
    Jul 6, 2016
    Texas
    Camera bodies have more and more become technology items over the last 20 years. The "best" system changes every year or even more often as new products are released. I try to consider the system as a whole especially since I tend to have a large library of lenses and system switching can be painful. I would have switched way too often if I jumped ship every time a new leader emerged.

    I have, sadly, gotten to the point where I have two complete systems. An FF system and an m43 system. They both have their benefits but in practice I am much more likely to grab my m43 camera simply because it is so much easier to carry around. This is in part because the body is a lighter but it is mostly because the lenses are so much smaller and lighter.

    For me, the Fuji system could never replace my m43 system simply because it is too big. The upper end Fuji lenses are nearly as large and heavy as their equivalent FF counterparts. Ultimately, I have more or less abandoned APS-C sized sensors because I don't really see much benefit in them. This year, some amazing APS-C sensor based cameras have hit the market but next year a new wave of FF sensors will likely blow them away. If I had no gear and was buying today I would be much more likely to buy into a Sony system than the Fuji even though I really like some of the ergonomics on the XT2.

    On a separate note I am quite curious to see what happens long-term here. I think there are more mainstream system formats in production than the market can support long-term. Canon, Fuji, Olympus/Panasonic, Nikon, Pentax and Sony are all in the ILC market with separate lens mounts and some of those have multiple mounts even within a single brand. It doesn't feel sustainable to me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Machi

    Machi Mu-43 Veteran

    208
    May 23, 2015
    Problem is that modern sensors are already very good. Gap between what physical laws allows and what sensors can do just now is smaller and smaller (there is always limited number of photons coming to your camera in given scene) and because of that manufacturers have smaller and smaller maneuvering space in terms of sensors sensitivity.
    But I hope that both Olympus and Panasonic will apply some kind of temporal denoising in their future models as RED did in their cameras.
    In some way Olympus already did this in case of their high-res mode for static scenes.
     
  17. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    True, the Leica SL does have the best EVF on the market, but it's made of unobtainium so we plebians are forced to use inferiors tools like Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji, Sony, etc.

    Regarding the EVF in the GX8, yes it is very big, but the nice thing about the X-T2's EVF is that it take the size of say a GX8 EVF, and pairs it with the ultra-fast refresh rate like in the a6300, greatly reducing the blackout time when shooting in one of the continuous modes.

    While the C-AF of the a6300 is definitely impressive, the early reviews I've seen of both menu options as well as actual results, so that X-T2 as being vastly superior to the X-Pro 2, and very competent when dealing with very fast subject (i.e. race cars), coming directly towards you, and you can customize the things like if the target will be accelerating/decelerating so that the AF system can better predict what will happen, compared to just about every previous C-AF system in mirrorless where you set it to C-AF, possibly tracking mode, and that was it.

    The new modes for C-AF and subject tracking in the X-T2 are very reminiscent of how users can set up a DSLR to do the same task, and that was about the last real advantage DSLR's had over mirrorless was their superior C-AF and subject tracking capabilities. From the early reports I've seen (which must always be taken with a grain of salt), the X-T2 does a stellar job.

    In some other thread, I recently compared the prices of a couple common "premium" prime lenses across the two systems: The 16 f1.4 to the PL12 f1.4, the 35 f1.4 to the PL25 f1.4, the 56 f/1.2 to the PL42.5 f1.2, and the 90 f2 to the 75 f1.8. I was pretty surprised to see that in just about every case, the Fuji lenses were cheaper than their ultra-premium m43 counterparts.

    Having said that Fuji doesn't have a lot of the "cheaper" primes like m43 does, although they did announce a new 23mm f2 that weather sealed, as well as a 50mm f2 that weather sealed. The one comparison that does exist is Fuji's 35mm f2 WR to Olympus 25mm f1.8, as both lenses cost the same amount. The Fuji is 1/3 a stop slower, but is weather sealed (a trade-off I would personally take). It's also no larger/heavier, despite having to cover a 3:2 APS-C sensor compared to the 4:3 m43 sensor.


    I think Fuji has definitely come a long way from the days of the X-Pro 1, X-E1, X-E2, etc. Their AF is now very good (not as blazing quick as m43, but not dog slow like it used to be). They definitely are targeting the upper end of the market with their cameras and lenses, but that's really no different than Panasonic with their GH4/GX8/PL lenses, or Olympus with their E-M1/Pen-F & PRO primes (whenever they may arrive).

    I personally think that it's great that there are more and more well fleshed-out mirrorless systems, as it just gives users more flexibility in selecting a system that they'll enjoy using. I still believe m43 has a serious play in the entry to mid-level market with their cheap, small, and excellent primes, as well as cameras like the new GX80/85 (probably the best bang-for-buck camera out there). But I believe Fuji have made it to a point with their lenses and bodies that they can challenge the high-end m43 market for customers.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
     
  18. rezatravilla

    rezatravilla Mu-43 Top Veteran

    533
    Aug 7, 2013
    Indonesia
    Reza Travilla
    Just saw this title's thread, Fuji release the new XT2. In my mind oh what they offers new then. I read the link from @pdk42@pdk42 shared and then i leave a comment. This the chronology.
    Not major innovation, i guess only a better version which Fuji always lack, AF. Then adding 4K because the market says so.
     
  19. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    The Fuji system certainly has a lot going for it, but I'm not convinced that the final results are meaningfully better than u43 (I'm talking about the 16Mp sensors). As many have pointed out here and elsewhere the apparent noise advantage at higher ISO of the Fuji cameras is mostly down to NR and very similar results in the 800-3200 range can be obtained from an OMD as an XT.

    For me the big difference is still lens choice & size and IBIS - both of which still puts u43 ahead. However, if Fuji really has cracked good AF on moving subjects then it could be a tipping point for many. The E-M1 ii really does need to score a home run here to stay in the game.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  20. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian

    Riiiight... No innovation like:
    • 24MP X-Trans sensor (50% boost over predecessor, while improving on high ISO performance)
    • Best-in-class C-AF performance, with customizable modes and settings to optimize performance for the subject you're shooting
    • 325-point AF system
    • 100fps EVF refresh for reduced EVF black-out
    • 4K video
    • Dual SD card slots
    • AF-joystick for AF point adjustment with the camera at your eye
    • Dual-axis LCD hinge
    You're totally right though. No innovation.

    Trolls 'gon troll...