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Fuji X-T1 or Oly OM-D E-M1

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by CVigilV, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. CVigilV

    CVigilV Mu-43 Regular

    30
    Oct 14, 2013
    Hi,

    I'm in a huge dilema in what camera should I buy. Both of the are incredible cameras, but I have to say that each one has a characteristic that makes its a little better than the other:

    - The Fuji has the IQ advantage. After several nights comparing files of both cameras the Fuji has the edge here.
    - The Olympus has the advantage of the InBody IS and the extra stop in speed. Also 10fps is a nice extra, since I shot sport.

    Then heres my dilema... I shoot landscapes and sports mainly, especifically using wide angle lenses. Having this said, both system are going to have available in a near future good quality wide angle lenses(Fuji has the f/4 15-36mm equiv. and Olympus will have a f/2.8 14-28mm equiv.). Both have their edges here also:

    - The Fuji has the advantage of the focal range it has, in my opinion more usable for my need, since I have been shooting my fathers Nikkor 20-35mm for the last 3 months.
    - The Olympus has the advantage in being a fast piece of glass, useful since the sports I normally shoot are high-speed sports like Downhill longboarding and Mountain Bike. more light entering in the sensor means higher shutter speeds.

    Also I shoot my fathers Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8, easily one of the best lenses to shoot in my opinion. This lens has a nice focal range and is fast, and since the equivalent lens for this focal range will be launched this year for both system I'm not so worried about it, since I have to earn the money to be able to buy them. But heres the problem, Olympus will launch the 40-150 f/2.8 later this year, which tempts me a lot since is a bigger focal range.

    Well after all any of both systems will be awesome, in m43 side I have the bast glass options and in Fuji's side I have a customer service(Firmware Updates and a growing system) and that has awesome glass.

    Thanks In Advance,
    Carlos.

    P.S: In both cases I would buy first the camera with the kit lens, in the case of the EM-1 it would be with the 12-40 f/2.8 :smile:
     
  2. tomO2013

    tomO2013 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    799
    Oct 28, 2013
    The Fuji and O-MD are both great cameras - there are thousands of threads on these forums and elsewhere where people are trying to decide between one and the other. Keep in mind we are on a m43 forum so the opinions here are bound to come from a place of guiding you towards the m43 system. My own included. You should also post the same question over on FujiXSpot sister site and I'm sure you would get entirely different advice. :)

    Personally I feel that the O-MD is like carrying around a mini D4. It's a very very capable professional recording device. I have an order in for an XT1 myself as a secondary system but plan to shoot it along side the OMD as my primary system and to use the XT1 for those times that I want a different 'look'.
    With respect to your questions....
    "1 stop shutter speed difference". Yes the O-MD has a one stop advantage here. I don't feel that this is a deal breaker unless you are shooting in extremely bright conditions and shooting wide open. It is also a moot point by the use of neutral density filters with the Fuji. Chances are that with a long telephoto lens you will never need 1/8000 of a second as most long glass tends to be a lot slower than F1.4 ;) So for your uses I probably wouldn't get too hung up on the shutter speed difference :)

    Focus speed : For sports the XT1, E-M1 are the cream of the mirrorless crop presently. Neither is going to beat a Nikon D4 for shooting a hockey game without a judicious firmware update. I've found the E-M1 heavily dependant on the lens that is attached. The Continuous + tracking with the new 12-40 is excellent. The same settings with the Pan 100-300 can be frustrating. I haven't shot sports with the Fuji but according to the digitalrev review of the XT1, it's predictive autofocus for tracking moving objects is very good. I would imagine that the E-M1 will still have the better focusing, not least because the lenses themselves are largely designed to be quick to focus.

    With regards to the 70-200 focal length, you do not have to wait for the Oly 40-150. You can walk into a shop today and pick up the Panasonic 35-100F2.8 which has an equivalent focal length coverage to your fathers Nikkor 70-200 and is fast to focus.

    With respect to image quality and which is 'better'. All that matters is which is better to your eyes. Many love the way the XTrans renders. There are also many others who do not like how it renders and wish that Fuji had stuck with their X100 formula (not the X100s). Personally, doing my own side to side comparisons, I prefer the E-M1 output to the XTrans output - I also feel that I can do more with the Raw files in post, where the camera output is only the starting point for me. But these things are entirely subjective between each person, and as I said earlier, I do have an order in or the XT1, but primarily to shoot the 23mm F1.4.

    Raw workflow. The quality of RAW output from the Fuji is highly dependent on the RAW converter that you use. Consider giving Iridient or PhotoNinja a try if you want to get the best results from the RAF files. I've recently ran a few RAF files through PhotoNinja and been blown away by the quality improvement over the latest lightroom.
    Similarly PhotoNinja does a vastly superior job to LR for the OMD files too. If you go the OMD route, you have the option of keeping the Olympus colour profiles in RAW either via LR or from Olympus' own RAW convertor. Many people shoot Fuji and Olympus because they love the color signatures.

    IBIS - Pretty much every reviewer raves about this feature, and for good reason. It is often the difference between hand held tack sharp shots at lower ISO's and having to bump the ISO or worse yet, not getting the shot in focus at all. Each and every lens you ever attach to an OMD will be image stabilised, from the Minolta Rokkor's, Leica 50mm Summilux, to the latest Olympus 25mm. Olympus claim a 5 stop advantage in their brochures with IBIS. In reality I don't think it's quite 5 stops, but it is definitely not far off depending on the focal length.
    If you go the Fuji route lack of IBIS may be a moot point as the Fuji zooms have been announced with image stabilization. Panasonic also go this route with their m43 body lenses (newer GX7's etc.. being the exception) and people still get great shots. IBIS is the sort of thing that you are happy to live without until you actually use it for a period of time and your keeper rate suddenly jumps!

    Other things to consider when making your decision..

    Flash sync speed - do you intend to shoot with flash ?

    Shoot video - Neither the OMD or the Fuji will be as good as a hybrid camera like the GH3/GH4 if you value video as well as stills ( the GH4 by all accounts gives nothing up to the OMD or XT1 in stills quality).

    Firmware updates - to date Olympus have not been as good listening to their customers when it comes to firmware updates. Fuji on the other hand genuinely give the vibe that they listen to and care about what the photographic community have to say. Now things may be changing in this regard because the market now demands good post purchase firmware support and the provision of new features. E.g. Olympus recently gave E-M5 users the smaller focussing points via firmware. There is also the rumor of a bunch of new features to be given soon to E-M1 users.

    Reading your post, the vibe I get is that the heart says Fuji and the head says Olympus. If this is the case, I would genuinely go with your heart and pick up the Fuji. There is nothing worse than buying something that you feel is second best in some way or other. If you feel that the IQ is better between the files and you prefer the handling, well that is a huge part of the battle and you are answering your own questions out loud. Either way you will pick up a great camera.

    Best of luck.

    Tom.
     
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  3. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    662
    Jul 1, 2013
    How fast do you need something? If today, the E-M1 might be a safer bet. I'd be a bit cautious in regard to the X-T1, most reviews avoid the C-AF subject, and the few that do just say the camera is good... not great for action. If all you shoot is action, I'd really think about something else as well.
     
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  4. taz98spin

    taz98spin Mu-43 Top Veteran

    843
    May 13, 2011
    NYC
    Wait.. I thought tracking for action was good on the X-T1?!
     
  5. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    Fuji claim it is. That doesn't mean it's true. Ditto for most/all mirrorless cameras - the E-M1 is pretty damn good, but a decent midrange DSLR will run circles around it.
     
  6. taz98spin

    taz98spin Mu-43 Top Veteran

    843
    May 13, 2011
    NYC
    There are several review videos that proof that Fuji wasn't making a false claim.
    Check out the Camera Store's video about the X-T1.
     
  7. burdickjp

    burdickjp Mu-43 Veteran

    235
    Feb 25, 2013
    A big selling point for the Fuji to me is the presence of dedicated ISO, shutter, and aperture wheels and rings. To me it's the successor to the Lumix DMC-L1.

    I DREAM of a u4/3 camera with dedicated wheels.
     
  8. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    983
    Sep 8, 2012
    Chad
    If you mean tracking cars on the road ?
    That not proof it's very basic stuff IMHO

    No mirror less is doing well here


     
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  9. taz98spin

    taz98spin Mu-43 Top Veteran

    843
    May 13, 2011
    NYC
    So what kind of tracking do you want?
    Able to track zigzag movements?

    If being able to track cars coming towards you while having all the images in focus, isn't impressive, I guess mirror-less camera's aren't an option for users who want to shoot action?
     
  10. John M Flores

    John M Flores Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 7, 2011
    Somerville, NJ
    In most of those shots, the whole truck is in focus, along with a good amount of the background/foreground. And the truck is on a predictable trajectory.

    So while I'm encouraged, I'm not quite convinced.
     
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  11. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    983
    Sep 8, 2012
    Chad
    in darker conditions and people moving :) small targets longer lens shallow DOF stuff is what I want to see more of
    some reviews I see almost hyper focal looking shots and saying see they are in focus :) and kinda like DUH EVERYTHING is in focus :) hahaahah

    soccer player longer lens to really see what its doing would be fun to see ! since they are going many more directions
    and as said not predictable straight forward sleight angle path :)


    in the day regular focus the E-m1 rocks its when it gets dark and the guys I know who shoot the Fuji X say the same thing

    not on you personally about it either :) just saying a big car in a city street is not a big deal

     
  12. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    662
    Jul 1, 2013
    Good.... is not great. Canon owns fast action, Nikon follows. You can probably call Canon great, Nikon good, everyone else is a bit behind. Where does that leave the X-T1, who knows.
     
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  13. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    983
    Sep 8, 2012
    Chad
    I hope the X-T1 beats the OMD would love that want to push mirrorless forward not holding my breathe ?

    same as a few reports of the images just blowing away M4/3 ? yawn :)

    all things are getting closer to DSLR performance but are not there yet that is reality but the size and overall package I prefer better so willing to give up a bit to get a bit kinda thing :)
     
  14. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    662
    Jul 1, 2013
    Lol... I love when they say equal to traditional DSLR. Like which one??? A D40? Frankly I'll be amazed when Mirrorless can match the lowly D3000, which has CAM-1000, as far as tracking.
     
  15. FlyPenFly

    FlyPenFly Mu-43 Veteran

    448
    Feb 15, 2011
    No touch screen is a huge disadvantage. Being able to click on exactly what I want tracked is amazing. Also, being able to use a lever to switch between saf and CAF tracking is convenient.

    I would not recommend xtrans for landscapes. It will mush foliage and other small fine random details. Xtrans cannot handle fine infinite details well withough incredibly high levels of sharpening that introduce false detail.

    MfT is superior for landscapes because you can carry such a wide variety of lenses for so little space and you don't need a hugely heavy tripod. Getting into position at the right time is more important than anything for landscapes. There are also a lot of tripod friendly features built right in like antishock.
     
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  16. tetraphoenix

    tetraphoenix Mu-43 Regular

    40
    Oct 30, 2013
    I had E-M1 and I chose X-T1 because I like the Fuji look of images and BW jpegs and prefer the dials. I will say good luck to whoever is picking between the two because they are both very good cameras and systems. There is no wrong choice here as both cameras require very few compromises.
     
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  17. DigitalD

    DigitalD Mu-43 Top Veteran

    505
    Jan 10, 2014
    Miami
    David
    I really thought I could add something here but this pretty much sums it up.

    If you love the fuji x-trans IQ then you will be head over heals for the x-t1 and at the end of the day I think loving your camera is better then any performance report. Anyone who has gotten the fuji in their hands has loved it, even Steve Huff who is usually not fond of the newest fuji lineup.

    The comparisons between these 2 cameras over the next few months are going to be like a commentary on Olympic downhill skiing. The difference between 1st and 2nd are going to be so slight, if you blink you might miss it! Ha!
     
  18. ccunningham

    ccunningham Mu-43 Veteran

    453
    Jul 23, 2010
    The slight differences is what you have to decide between. I have an x-e1 and an e-m5. I can't decide which one to sell on, they're so close in so many ways but each one has some slight thing I like a little better. And I know I don't need both.
     
  19. Ulfric M Douglas

    Ulfric M Douglas Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 6, 2010
    Northumberland
    A complicated issue, wide-angle sports zoom lens with fast focus, plus a good longer zoom.
    1.Buy a Nikon body and continue to use your Dad's lenses.
    2.Buy an e-pM2 or e-pL5 with the 14-42 kit zoom (£350 tops) included and see if (the focus is very very fast) it will do some of the job on the bikes.
    3.Wait! until the Fuji is proven to give you fast enough focus, or not.

    I think buying one of your stated cameras right now might turn out to be a waste of time and money.
     
  20. jurgen

    jurgen Mu-43 Regular

    120
    Jan 27, 2014
    So I had an E-M1 for a few months (that I unfortunately had to sell to pay for medical bills), and my sister recently got a Fuji X-T1. I've spent quite a bit of hands on time with both.

    The biggest problem right now with the Fuji is quality control. If you take a look through the dpreview/fujix-forum forums, you'll see a number of threads about production issues - dust and oil embedded (literally trapped between glass) on the sensor, hot pixels, light leaks, etc. My sister has now sent back two bodies due to oil spots trapped between layers of glass on the sensor. The QC problems have been immensely frustrating.

    Beyond that, though, there are only a few big differences. The X-T1 doesn't focus nearly as fast as my E-M1 did - least, not with the handful of lenses my sister bought. This is largely a function of the older lens motors in the 35 and the 18, but it still means that, shooting with a fast 50mm equivalent, you're going to have slow focusing. Is it unusably slow? No. But it is slow. And loud. The quiet shutter sound (about as quiet, though maybe a little bit more high pitched, than the E-M1) is totally negated by the loud WHIRRR, TSHTT TSHTT TSHTT, WHRRRR of the lens.

    The Fuji also has a wild amount of detail smearing (at least in jpgs) with ISO's 3200 and up. Much lower noise, but it looks like someone took an ORF file into ACR and cranked on the NR. Borderline water color-y, and that's with both X-T1 bodies we had, with NR set to the lowest setting. RAW files from the XT1 are better but still with mild detail degradation over the E-M1 (to my eye, at least).

    I preferred the Fuji colors by a considerable amount. I loved using the film sim modes, and really liked that you could apply them in post to the raw files with the ACR 8.4 release candidate. This is a personal preference thing, but I have a hard time believing ANYONE would prefer another cameras colors to the X-Trans. Looks so good.

    Both cameras have woefully ****ty SD card doors. They just do, no point trying to talk around it. The E-M1 is snappier and has a surer click but seems flimsier than the X-T1's. I have a hard time believing either are weather sealed, but I've seen the tests (at least with the E-M1), so I guess it's not really about the "feel," is it?

    The EVF's were both really good. Hard to say which I preferred, as I didn't have a chance to compare both cameras side by side. I felt like the X-T1's had more lag and flicker in low light. Both X-T1's were more prone to strange behavior when switching between LCD and EVF - sometimes they would switch randomly (while sitting on a tripod many feet from any person), sometimes they would take many seconds switching between EVF and LCD. Once or twice the entire system just locked up. It was weird. Never happened on the E-M1.

    I really prefer the control layout of the E-M1, but that's most likely because I had more time with it. The 2x2 dial system makes a lot of sense when you get used to it. There are no annoying push locks to deal with like on the X-T1 (you cannot change ISO with your eye to the EVF, unless you're willing to contort yourself unreasonably to push the lock and twist the dial offhanded while trying to maintain composition) and the exposure comp. dial can actually be turned with one finger. Both X-T1's had incredibly stiff exp. comp dials. I am told this is new for Fuji, and that in the past they have had very nice dials. Hopefully the take some of the bite out of this one in later production runs.

    People bitch a lot about the X-T1 control dial, but I didn't really get it. It was a little recessed and sometimes it wouldn't register a hit on the first push (maybe one out of every 50 tries at first), but it got better with pratice. I have very large hands and I really, really think this is people overstating the scope of the issue. When I read about it before handling the camera, it sounded like you were going to need a stylus to press into the impossibly narrow cracks. Not true at all. Just press the button. It works fine.

    Overall, my opinion is the the E-M1 is a much more useable, much more practical camera. They both take great pictures. In low light, the E-M1 is probably 90% as good as the Fuji. At ISO 800 or below, if you're processing RAW files, it's the same. Again, I have no stake in the game; I no longer own an E-M1 and only have limited access to the Fuji. Were it me with the money, having had time with both cameras ... I'd probably buy a GH3. Under a grand, pretty much the same IQ as the E-M1 and a lot of money left over for one or two good lenses. That's just me, though. Body only, I'd go E-M1. You'll get more keepers, and (perhaps most importantly) won't have to spend the next weeks/months dealing with incessant quality control issues.
     
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