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Fuji X-E2 Temptetion

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by bahamot, May 25, 2016.

  1. bahamot

    bahamot Mu-43 Regular

    171
    Dec 4, 2015
    The current sale (probably EOL sale) on Fuji X-E2+XF18-55mm for about ~698USD is looking mighty tempting to me. That's about the B&H's price for the brand new XF18-55mm.
    But I'm having serious doubt after checking the available X-mount lenses' price & weight.

    So ... any opinions from anyone with both system (m4/3 and Fuji)?

    Thanks.
     
  2. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    Fuji glass is a little bigger and heavier as you would expect given the APS-C versus m4/3 sensor. The selection is not as big as the we have in m4/3, but it is pretty complete. One area Fuji has covered that m4/3 does not is the mid class zooms. m4/3 doesn't have anything like the 18-55 and 55-200 even though there are 4/3 versions. The mid range zooms are as much about build and features as aperture and price.

    But as tempting as those two are (and they are for me) I have never really been a fan of x-tran.
     
  3. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Seeing as you already have a GX8 + 12-35/2.8 and have been able to create fantastic images with it, I'm not sure what you would be getting with the Fuji X-E2 and 18-55/2.8-4 which is a lower-end combination in every respect. Unless you are looking for smoother ISO 6400 files, but in that case a fast prime will give you much better results than the Fuji zoom. I feel like Fuji and M4/3 are kind of "either/or" systems, since both can accomplish much the same thing and are largely duplicated, and your choice of which system to use really depends on your specific aesthetic and ergonomic / UI preferences. By contrast, M4/3 and an FF set-up can be more complimentary, since they both have unique strengths that don't really overlap that much.
     
  4. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    I tried Fuji many times and keep coming back to Nikon and Olympus. I say rent the setup you want first and see if it is worth it to you.

    It was not for me, and I am happy with what m43 has to offer over Fuji.
     
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  5. AlanU

    AlanU Mu-43 Veteran

    484
    May 2, 2012
    Bahamot I see that your open to suggestions. Please understand that different systems are exactly that....different. This is where it may suite you very well or possibly not. I'd strongly suggest borrowing/renting one before you dive in. I blindly bought into the Fuji X-T10 system and it's been virtually overall an extremely positive move.

    The X-E2 with the latest firmware update makes that body perform as well as the current 16mpx body like the X-T10/X-T1.

    Do not kid yourself thinking the Fuji AF is equivalent to the speed of the M43. However the phase detection on the fuji is quite accurate.

    I've owned M43 for over 4yrs now and have had lenses come and go. The Fuji kit lens is remarkable and even better when you factor in the cost in a fuji "kit".

    What I find is that I've been slammed with little tolerance for recommending the Fuji system on the M43 forum. M43 users can be quite defensive recommending a camera system out of the Panasonic/Olympus family. I own Canon FF, M43 and Fuji now and they all have different purposes for me.

    The noise characteristics between M43 and fuji are totally different. Camera Labs had an article that stated aprox 2 stops better in the high iso performance vs the Olympus E-m1

    The fuji noise is finer while the M43 will have larger pixelated noise when the RAW file falls apart in low light. I cannot see any M43 user disagreeing.

    Fujifilm XT1 sample images | Cameralabs

    Look at the X-T1 images (same as x-t10, x-e2 image quality) with the kit lens. This well valued kit lens plays in the same league as my 12-35mm panny. I can look at some older FF lenses like Canon 24-70L f/2.8mk1 or 24-105L f/4IS and this kit lens is just as rich as those simple snapshot examples in Cameralabs. ISO 3200 with the fuji system is effortless in cleaning up noise in post processing. Until you play with the Raw files in post you will understand why I've raved about my comparison of my $1000 panny 12-35mm lens vs fuji 18-55 kit lens. The higher performance low light capabilities fuji body paired with a rock solid performing Fuji kit lens is a killer combo for $700 bucks USD!!!

    Image on the top with minimal noise reduction. Image on the bottom is with a little more aggressive massaging in post. This is my example of how non human subjects can be hit with more aggressive noise reduction and look great on the web. Human skin texture is by far more sensitive to NR and this is where any camera format with better noise control in low light will produce and retain skin texture at higher ISO's. This museum photo was in a very dark room with spot lights. Fuji velvia was used iirc with moderate tweaks in post.

    I suggest you borrow a fuji and see for yourself the difference. If you shoot in good light all of the time the M43 is a fantastic system with huge lens selection. I find that I will shoot in the iso 3200+ range more often than not in restaurants/indoors and this is where I see the difference in cleaner files over my gh3 or em5 with 12-35mm (due to body performance mostly)

    DSCF3919.jpg
    DSCF3919-2.jpg

    Fuji kit lens is a killer combo for $700 bucks USD!!!

    If casual video clips are concerned like the stuff you'd take with your smartphone the M43/panny system is very good for the video aspect. Serious video the M43 is excellent upto iso 3200. Fuji AF in video is not good but if your shooting manual focus it's "ok". This is where the Sony A6300 or even A6000 has an adequate amount of lenses $$$ but the iso performance and video is very good overall.

    This is where a stills photo person can also look at and jump at an older model Sony A7 or Fuji system more for a street shooter/still shooter setup. If you truly shoot in the range of iso 3200 and higher it's a no brainer to jump into a different camera format/secondary system.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  6. cptobvious

    cptobvious Mu-43 Veteran

    239
    Jan 8, 2013
    I thought the X-E2/18-55 deal ended weeks ago? I owned the X-E2/18-55 last year. My thoughts summarized in a pros/cons list:

    +Fuji colors are the best I've seen yet, even better than Olympus. The film presets are excellent. If I were shooting JPEG-only I'd switch to Fuji.
    +The tactile feel of the metal camera and lenses and dials is addicting
    +DR is noticeably better than MFT
    +I personally prefer the native 3:2 aspect ratio for general shooting

    -RAW files are large and slow to process in LR, and the halos around fine detail in LR bothers me.
    -Having a shutter speed dial is cool in theory, slower in practice. You're limited to whole stops on the main dial and have to fine tune 1/3 stops with the switch in the back.
    -AF not as fast or reliable as MFT
    -Lenses are expensive. Total system cost is in lower-end FF territory

    I ended up selling my X-E2 (and X100S). Main reasons for sticking with MFT was the IBIS, AF, and control dials suited my uses better. Fuji X is a fun system to shoot and I could see switching if the LR rendering issues were solved.
     
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  7. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    One thing that bears repeating is that Fuji doesn't measure ISO the same way that all the other camera companies do, so they are typically about 2/3 stop darker in exposure when shooting at the same ISO. So an X-E2 shot at f5.6 and ISO 3200 will shoot at 1/6s to get the same exposure as a GX7 or E-M1 shot at f5.6, ISO 3200, and 1/10s. When you equalize for that, and the inherent chroma noise reduction built into the X-Trans demosaicing, the differences in low light performance become much less noticeable.

    Ordinarily when you compare Aperture Priority shots with equal ISOs it seems like a big difference, because 2/3 of a stop is noticeable, but mainly it is a difference of total exposure, not ISO performance. Maybe tonight I'll put together a comparison based on the DPReview Low Light Simulation studio scene with each of the files exposure matched with equivalent chroma NR and you can see the difference for yourself.
     
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  8. ean10775

    ean10775 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 31, 2011
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Eric
    Couldn't agree more with these three points
     
  9. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    But a lot of those points are very subjective, like color and Lightroom rendering.

    Each person likes the color renderings based on how they perceive them, which no other person can possible understand. We cannot truly see what others see.
    Lightroom can render Fuji files just fine, people just need to understand that the files have to be treated differently. The processing you use for Nikon/Canon/m43 sensors are not the same. ISO performance and "look" is also a personal preference. I know many people that prefer the hi ISO noise rendering of m43 over other camera companies.

    Furthermore - if I only shot portraits, I would still have a Fuji kit, and most likely nothing else.

    However, if you need a large range of capabilities Fuji is not the ticket, at least not for me. So far, I've only been able to get Nikon and Olympus to get what I need.

    We can all wax poetic about what is the best, and these posts are just our personal preferences.

    The truly best way for anyone to know what they will and will not like is to actually use the gear - renting being the lowest cost option.

    Please don't get me wrong, I'm not Fuji bashing. It is a great system, with a quality lens lineup. It is just not for everyone. No camera system is...that is why we have many.
     
  10. 50orsohours

    50orsohours Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 13, 2013
    Portland Oregon
    Do you really find the reaction abnormal? How different would Fuji shooters on a Fuji specific forum react if some one kept recommending another format? lOL! I would guess that almost all the members come here to learn about m4/3?


     
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  11. Estrellas321

    Estrellas321 Mu-43 Regular

    106
    Feb 19, 2015
    Vancouver, BC
    I would like to add that this is a severe understatement when mentioning Fuji's video capability, or lack thereof! My experience with Fuji video, when used in AF, is that focus hunts a LOT, and I can hear the focus motor in the video itself. The image quality is probably acceptable but if I were to compare side by side with Panasonic, I'm sure Fuji wouldn't be as good.

    The above comment is made with a Fuji X-M1 and 35mm f1.4, so maybe it will be different with the X-E2, but likely not.

    Edit: To be fair, I suppose I should also point out my good experiences with Fuji. Fuji has been one of my favourite mirrorless systems that I've owned (also owned Sony a6000, Olympus E-M10, Panasonic LX100, and Panasonic GX7). Really great image quality out of the camera, and I've been able to do some magic with the RAW files using Capture One. What caused me to leave the system was the fairly slow AF and poor video capability.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  12. AlanU

    AlanU Mu-43 Veteran

    484
    May 2, 2012
    In the forum "This and That" Bahamot asked a question regarding another format.
     
  13. AlanU

    AlanU Mu-43 Veteran

    484
    May 2, 2012
    Well said....

    For some the Fuji may be more than enough for their "stills" documentation requirements. For some there is a limitation in the system. I will have to agree Fuji's video needs to be improved. The AF is not ideal for capturing fast action. Portrait work the fuji does incredibly well for a 16mpx camera. I've yet to play with the new 24 mpx sensor in LR6.

    For universal application at my max limit of iso 3200 and lower...this is where the m43 shines. IMO premium glass is required to pull the max IQ. This goes for pretty much any camera platform.

    If I didn't own a full line of Canon gear I would struggle to have the Fuji as my primary and only system. I put great emphasis on image quality of my family documentation and I grab my Fuji when I want small form factor. However the Fuji AF does 95% of what I need for kids documentation but I'll dip as low as iso 4000 with relatively clean results. Just another tool to use......eventually I'll be picking up a 56 f/1.2 and start playing with it in my studio. I think fuji renders well for that purpose.
     
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  14. ean10775

    ean10775 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 31, 2011
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Eric
    I agree with all your points as well :)
     
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  15. 50orsohours

    50orsohours Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 13, 2013
    Portland Oregon
    That doesn't answer my question.

     
  16. AlanU

    AlanU Mu-43 Veteran

    484
    May 2, 2012
    Bahamot, I just took a quick look at your flickr link. Majority of your photos you've taken do appear that fuji would easily meet your requirements. Your quite skillful in tweaking colours to make the image appealing. Virtually majority I see so far is slow moving/static exception of the flying BIF.

    As I click onto the photo i see that there is the commonly seen noise pattern all M43 users are aware of even at a low iso 400. The photo "Evening at ayana" is great in composition and I think a Fuji with 18-55 kit lens using 18mm (f/2.8) will provide less pixelated noise. This is where I can say your personal editing skills will take over the rest!!

    $700 usd is a very low cost risk for photographic gear. Especially if your talking about a "kit". I'd experiment and if you dislike it....sell it!!
     
  17. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    That is solid advice imo. These choices tend to often come down to preference rather than capability, so you really have to try it for yourself.
     
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  18. 50orsohours

    50orsohours Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 13, 2013
    Portland Oregon
    Right! Otherwise how in the heck do you keep a job working for Nat Geo using M4/3?
     
  19. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    True enough! I'm still on the fence about my recent acquisition of a Pentax K-S2. APS-C hasn't "wowed" me in terms of image quality, nor has the DSLR experience in general, but as an inexpensive all-weather kit, I still want to give it a fair shake on my upcoming canoe camping trip.

    If anything, trying a new system can sometimes remind you of all the fantastic things you take for granted in your existing system. Blazing AF, mirrorless adaptability, the touchscreen, and excellent Panasonic UI and manual focus aids were things I didn't realize I was missing until I tried another system for a while.
     
  20. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    ?