Frustration with G1 - cant get decent pictures

blue

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I like my G1, well I *want* to like it, but I'm just not getting results - shots out of focus, blurry, dark, dull, washed out, no "crispness", colours all wrong - well everything wrong really.

I am using the pana 20mm, kit 14-45, a couple of old legacy primes and occasionaly the oly 9-18.

Some sample images. The first shows the tub of flowers, I focused where it is marked in green and have cropped (roughly) to the white rectangle. Crops are pana20, pana45, oly18 and finally my old point and shoot panaTZ1:

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The only decent one is the TZ1 !!!

What's going on ?
 

Streetshooter

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Can you post your exif data? It would be very helpful. Could you also post the un-cropped versions of the images. We need to see what's happening from the original file size.
Thanks....shooter
 

retnull

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Hm, seems like the depth of field is just shallower on the G1?
Yes, looks the same to me.

Maybe try shooting in aperture-priority mode for a while, comparing if you like the stopped-down shots more?
 

blue

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Here is the pana45 at full size. I assumed the exif was somehow attached to the picture, but for this shot it is f8, aperture priority, 1/100, ISO200, ev+0.33, auto WB, AF, resolution4000x3000, 180dpi

I don't think it should be a depth of field problem. I chose f8 purposely for all the G1 pics (on the TZ1 it was auto at f3.2). There just seems to be nothing sharp ?

Also in contrast to my old compact is the colour/brightness - the green is far too dull and dark, and that maroon of the flowers is actually nearer a deep pink in reality. The TZ1 greens are spot on, the overall image more eye-catching though it still misses the pink somewhat.

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igi

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Looks like the aperture was set to wide open at minimum focus distance... if it is then it will really give you a really thin depth of field.

Your old point-and-shoot wouldn't have that problem. It uses a way smaller sensor than the G1 and that's the reason why it has so much depth of field.

As for the colors, I'm not sure but it seems like it's just JPEG processing. The JPEGs on the point and shoot are processed to have more saturated colors (typical for point and shoots) than the G1.

Take note that the G1 is a different camera altogether than the TZ1. Go shoot with where you're comfortable with, not with what you want to want :biggrin:
 

Streetshooter

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1st issue is your +0.33 EV setting....go the other direction and set the camera to -0.3
That will clear up the color exposure issues.
Did you have the IS on? if you were at 1/100 sec at 90mm...your close to the blur from camera shake. As you are that close, it could be that...it would be barely visible but still create a problem with sharpness.
 

blue

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igi - The aperture was f8. I never thought that was considered "wide open" - even if it was on a full frame never mind 4/3 ?
 

PeterB666

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Hm, seems like the depth of field is just shallower on the G1?
It would be by nature of the lens. With the much smaller sensor in the TZ1, you are shooting with a much wider focal length and therefore have more depth of field.

The problem with the images is that there is no specific focal point and the AF doesn't know what to focus on. Having the pot at an angle makes matters worse.
 

retnull

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The problem with the images is that there is no specific focal point and the AF doesn't know what to focus on. Having the pot at an angle makes matters worse.
Agreed, you chose a difficult test subject. The flowers might be blowing in the breeze that picked up the same moment you tried the G1 ! More controlled conditions might make it easier to figure out what's going on.
 

blue

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streetshooter - I did wonder about camera shake, even though IS was on for the kit lens. Thing is I also ended up with the same rubbish-looking shots from 9, 14, 18 and 20mm (and also on other pics I've done from a tripod anyway). So I thought possibly not just blur from a longer focal length and borderline slow speed

I bumped up the ev because the image seemed so dark. Have already taken hundreds of shots the past few days to try and get it right and I just can't seem to make it click, but will experiment some more.

Of the past few weeks I've taken probably thousands, and have maybe 5 or 10 I could even begin to think about using. It's a quite terrible hit rate.
 

blue

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retnull, peter - I chose the angle deliberately to test the depth of field, it was meant to be a difficult subject to see how the camera performed. I was expecting to see *something* sharp and in focus even if it wasn't the spot I'd chosen. Also, I brought the tub of flowers inside to avoid wind and so I would have consistency between shots. You can just about see the carpet I think.
 

igi

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igi - The aperture was f8. I never thought that was considered "wide open" - even if it was on a full frame never mind 4/3 ?
oh... then you still have to contend with the focus distance. I think even at F8 but at a close focus distance, the DOF is quite small

Peter and retnull gave good points on the AF. Assuming you're not using center-AF, the AF might just go and focus on wherever. The combination of both thin DOF with a chaotic subject that goes both horizontally and vertically is a hard task for contrast detect AF... and a harder task for multi-AF.

If it was center-AF though then it must have been really fooled by the subject.

Now if you place a smiley on the center flower and turn on the Face detect, that might make it easier for the camera :rofl:
 

blue

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it was centre AF at the smallest size available on the G1. I realise I should have given a bit more info in my initial post, but I had thought it through:

aperture priority - yes (and not wide open)
out of the wind - yes
various focal lengths (9 to 45 mm) - yes
centre spot focus - yes
do some with MF as well - yes
busy angled subject - yes (to see what if anything would end up in focus)
fiddle with ev - yes

and still - nothing in focus, too dark and wrong colours - with effectively six different lenses !!

It's been a problem with nearly everything I take with this camera, out of every 100+ shots I get about 5 at best that look at all clean and bright, would expect better.
 

blue

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tam - that's a good plan, I'll see if I can find a friendly store somewhere. It's doing my head in for sure.
 

G1 User

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Something else I see, that you want to adjust.
Your AWB can be adjusted for off color whites. The Concrete has a purple cast.
With you camera on and ready to take a picture, press the right 4way button, make sure it is on AWB and now press the down 4way button, and adjust it take out the magenta cast that is very heavy in your images... look at the concrete.. it tells the magenta story. Take a few images and how it looks until you get it right.

My G1 had a slight blue cast, and I did this adjustment, and now, it is my default adj.
My colors are now "perfect" imo.

For close up flower images, try f/11-16 instead of f/8. f/8 at close distances is not enough... you need about 1-2 feet of DOF for large flower arrangements that have different heights in the flowers that, a 14-17 focal would work better.
 

igi

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igi, have you tried that on the street? I'd be interested in knowing how it works.....
There was a time that I was going to shoot somebody and the camera kept focusing at a huge toothpaste billboard several hundred feet away :rofl:
 

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