Friends what do you think of this new model.....?

[BushmanOrig]

sometimes I can't tell if people are high, trying to be funny, or just a bit challenged. this thread is one of those times.

No its not - the SNR base noise theory left ISO hanging in air - people do not talk about it but still use it. The result is one of the most important digital camera functions is not well understood..... That's my point, what will replace the original triangle and its NOT the SNR theory.....the latter only explains the origins of noise NOT the how to......

 

[BushmanOrig]

Work ?

To me, simply explaining in words that image brightness depends on the effect of aperture, ISO and shutterspeed on the available light "works" much more clearly than those images.
Having Exposure in there makes sense, but then, wouldn't it be logic to have Light Input in there as well ?

Yes I agree - it should be possible to have exposure, total image brightness, base ISO all in one simple model (triangle) that is easy to explain and easy to remember once explained.

In general.....I appreciate some the light hearted replies....but I did hope to see a little more depth also I expected this forum has the goods to develop something great.....?

 

[barry]

View attachment 798368

Yes I agree - it should be possible to have exposure, total image brightness, base ISO all in one simple model (triangle) that is easy to explain and easy to remember once explained.

In general.....I appreciate some the light hearted replies....but I did hope to see a little more depth also I expected this forum has the goods to develop something great.....?

Hi Siegfried, to me, having the variables on the edges of the triangle is easier to understand than on the corners.
see https://photographylife.com/what-is-exposure-triangle for reference.

Maybe you can explain why you think yours is clearer? Otherwise, we're just going off the image itself.

 

[BushmanOrig]

Hi Siegfried, to me, having the variables on the edges of the triangle is easier to understand than on the corners.
see https://photographylife.com/what-is-exposure-triangle for reference.

Maybe you can explain why you think yours is clearer? Otherwise, we're just going off the image itself.

Sides looks great

 

[thazooo]

Wither it's ASA or ISO the triangle was presented with an explanation of how it works . Either from school class or reading books. It wasn't made to stand alone. It's not as simple as glance at it and have an understanding of exposure.

 

[twigboy]

No its not - the SNR base noise theory left ISO hanging in air - people do not talk about it but still use it. The result is one of the most important digital camera functions is not well understood..... That's my point, what will replace the original triangle and its NOT the SNR theory.....the latter only explains the origins of noise NOT the how to......

How so? With film one could (with those cameras so equipped) change the ASA (ISO) setting on the camera which in turn affected how the camera metered the other two sides, but the results in the film did change and were developed with the ASA in mind. https://thedarkroom.com/pushing-and-pulling-film/

 

[BushmanOrig]

How so? With film one could (with those cameras so equipped) change the ASA (ISO) setting on the camera which in turn affected how the camera metered the other two sides, but the results in the film did change and were developed with the ASA in mind. https://thedarkroom.com/pushing-and-pulling-film/

I don't think we disagree. My initial question was....is there a way to make ISO and its role easier to understand and work with? Should we design an updated image brightness (not exposure) triangle?

 

[Joris]

Work ?
To me, simply explaining in words that image brightness depends on the effect of aperture, ISO and shutterspeed on the available light "works" much more clearly than those images.
Having Exposure in there makes sense, but then, wouldn't it be logic to have Light Input in there as well ?

In general.....I appreciate some the light hearted replies....but I did hope to see a little more depth also I expected this forum has the goods to develop something great.....?

My answer was serious, somewhat anyway... To me this triangle shows the tools that affect exposure, but for this representation to "work", as said, it needs to show the material and the product. Right now to me it is as if you show a triangle with a hammer, a chisel and a plane. Without the raw material, wood, and the product, a chair, they make no sense

 

[MichailK]

How does the exposure triangle work when shooting film?

https://www.mu-43.com/threads/whoa-1939-“the-‘wellcome’-photographic-exposure-calculator”.105363/

 

[Brownie]

My answer was serious, somewhat anyway... To me this triangle shows the tools that affect exposure, but for this representation to "work", as said, it needs to show the material and the product. Right now to me it is as if you show a triangle with a hammer, a chisel and a plane. Without the raw material, wood, and the product, a chair, they make no sense

Yes and no. It can be displayed with as much information as you like:

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

Or in simple form like Bushman posted:

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

What is the application? If the idea is to get someone with zero knowledge up to speed, the first example has far too much information. In that case the second example makes more sense and you would add information added as you go. This is one of the first topics in a beginner's class.

You guys have to remember you're looking at this through experienced eyes.

 

[Mack]

Mystic "Exposure" Triangle

 

[Brownie]

What is the point of either of those images being a triangle? Why wouldn't the top one be better shown as thee rows where at least the brighter arrows could point in the same direction? (and frankly why bother showing the bottom one at all).

There is no point. I didn't design it, the triangle has been around for a very long time. If you read my post, you'll understand what the point is. This is beginner info. It all depends on how much information you want to throw at a newbie right off the bat. The ovals shown in a previous post also work.

 

[bassman]

With all due respect, all it does for me is suggest there is a relationship amongst the three settings. It doesn’t tell me what that relationship is, or How I might manipulate the settings to achieve some photographic objective.

Perhaps others are more perceptive than I am.

Just one bassman’s opinion.

 

[BushmanOrig]

With all due respect, all it does for me is suggest there is a relationship amongst the three settings. It doesn’t tell me what that relationship is, or How I might manipulate the settings to achieve some photographic objective.

Perhaps others are more perceptive than I am.

Just one bassman’s opinion.

Hello Bassman

Its simple....3 main points to reduce/manage noise

1. Expose the sensor into its sweet spot
2. Use IBIS to help you keep the ISO as low as possible
3. I show different camera features that will help you achieve the above

If you want to know the why....you will find it in the article

Hope this helps
Siegfried

 

[Sammyboy]

Exchange ISO for ASA.

I'm confused too. Not sure I understand, as this has been around longer than have I.

..... anyone here remember DIN (ASA/ISO) ..... you added 3 to the DIN number to double it's sensitivity .....

 

[RichardC]

..... anyone here remember DIN (ASA/ISO) ..... you added 3 to the DIN number to double it's sensitivity .....

They could use it today. The bigger the DIN, the more noise there is

 

[BushmanOrig]

Thank you for all the feedback and discussion, I followed it all but did not always reply as I was in the deep end on something else....

The contention many has with the original/existing exposure triangle is terminology and the explanation of the ISO setting. In most cases the ISO is described as adjusting sensor gain which you will agree is not the case....

That is I believe 80% plus of the existing exposure triangle concept is extremely valuable.

Brownie posted a great example. I would only replace the ISO description with "ISO sets the gain for the entire imaging system"

Best

 

[PakkyT]

Are we being pranked with these posts? I am starting to think these are all a very elaborate setups for some huge joke on all of us.

 

[BushmanOrig]

Are we being pranked with these posts? I am starting to think these are all a very elaborate setups for some huge joke on all of us.

No Pakky absolutely not....

 

[pdk42]

Are we being pranked with these posts? I am starting to think these are all a very elaborate setups for some huge joke on all of us.

And don't even mention ETTR!