FOSS Photography

[mcasan]

For those that want to know more about the FOSS photo apps: https://pixls.us/

 

[va3pinner]

Hello all - I am hoping this post generates a flood of replies.
I am a Linux user. I have Darktable, Raw Therapee, DigiKam and a host of other post processing apps on my computer.
AND I am at a total loss on where to start wit them, because the whole digital PP process is new to me. I have NO idea where to start my workflow with any of these programs.

I have chosen Darktable to be my main program, and as described in another reply in this tread, I just go in and try stuff until I create a **** of a mess then give up. Other times I really nail it- exactly what I wanted the photograph to say.
Last week I pulled up a raw file taken at night. Nice night scene overlooking a small town on a clody night. Interesting light reflecting on the clouds. Somehow, in the process of working with that photo, I discovered I could reveal stars through the clouds! and because it was an (overly) long exposure, I am able to see the traces of the clouds as they moved across the sky. Loved the results - but I have no idea what I did.

Point of this ramble - I need to figure out where to start, and a consistent minimal work flow to begin processing. I have as an (early) goal to make my RAW pics match my in camera jpg images, then go from there.
The article from pixls.us has a recommendation I will try, but I am looking for other ideas, and yes I know the whole process from start to finish is going to depend on the image. Darktable has 77 modules. I don't need all of them.
Just where in the world do I start??
Thanks

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

When I used Darktable, I made a relatively short list of favorites to employ on most post processing jobs. Things I almost always tweaked were brightness and contrast, local contrast, highlights and shadows, saturation, noise reduction, sharpening, and vignette. I found the key was to process in a consistent order, with noise reduction being your last step since it has a fair amount of processing overhead. I’m sure others have more tips than that.

 

[va3pinner]

When I used Darktable, I made a relatively short list of favorites to employ on most post processing jobs. Things I almost always tweaked were brightness and contrast, local contrast, highlights and shadows, saturation, noise reduction, sharpening, and vignette. I found the key was to process in a consistent order, with noise reduction being your last step since it has a fair amount of processing overhead. I’m sure others have more tips than that.

thank you for that I used those frequently and pretty much a random order at this point.
And on another subject - your username was my favorite episode Star trek new generation

 

[0000]

I am at a total loss on where to start wit them, because the whole digital PP process is new to me.

That being the case, and depending on the depth of your interest, I would suggest not trying too hard to "learn a program" at first, and focus on learning some general things about the subject... I know that sounds like a slower path to gratification, but... at the very least, make sure you understand the concept of "dynamic range", as it applies to both real world scenes and the results of trying to capture them as data... and the common ways of displaying information about that. If you're not really clear on how a RAW file is different from a "baked" image format, that would be good to have a grasp of, too. While some popular commercial software tries really hard to hide details related to this from the user, darktable doesn't; you're working a little more "from scratch".

Last week I pulled up a raw file taken at night. Nice night scene overlooking a small town on a clody night. Interesting light reflecting on the clouds. Somehow, in the process of working with that photo, I discovered I could reveal stars through the clouds! and because it was an (overly) long exposure, I am able to see the traces of the clouds as they moved across the sky. Loved the results - but I have no idea what I did.

The easiest way to "mess around" with an image, while still being able to clearly see the process related to the results, is probably to restrict yourself to just using a "curves" module at first... it can just be the "base curve" module (enabled by default); reset it to flat, then go nuts seeing the effects of dragging it around in both linear and log mode. Curve tools are common to almost all image processing software, so if you understand them, you'll understand more than just a specific app. Then, once you've mastered using curves, you can start trying to master not using curves.

Point of this ramble - I need to figure out where to start, and a consistent minimal work flow to begin processing. I have as an (early) goal to make my RAW pics match my in camera jpg images, then go from there.

That can certainly work just fine, as discussed earlier in this thread... the trick with darktable is to get this set up in a way which allows you the best options for making changes from there, rather than "painting yourself into a corner". Ultimately, you probably don't really want to mess with curves for every single image (unless you're working with a small number of very "artistic" masterpieces). If you can get yourself a good starting point based on just the exposure and filmic rgb modules (and maybe color balance for saturation, although that should be needed less with the next 3.2 release) you'll have a very nice, fast, parametric workflow for general images... and you can always fall back on the old curves module when you want to get crazy with sunsets and clouds or whatever.

The article from pixls.us has a recommendation I will try, but I am looking for other ideas, and yes I know the whole process from start to finish is going to depend on the image. Darktable has 77 modules. I don't need all of them.

You don't even need 1/4 of them... keep in mind that darktable is a non-destructive editor with a fairly long history... this means that there are plenty of modules that nobody should be using at this point, but they have to be retained so that edits somebody made ten years ago can still be rendered by the latest version. There's been some effort to hide the deprecated ones from users in the recent releases, but it's kind of a gray area, so some RTFM is required. The article mentioned earlier about linear RGB workflow is worth mentioning again.

 

[va3pinner]

Thank you for your reply. I've been handling a camera since the 1970s yeah I'm that old, so I clearly understand dynamic range. I also clearly understand the difference between a raw file and a jpeg. I was just looking for a good sequence a workflow to get started in.

I have fooled around with the various curves in darktable and other programs, but I think I will probably focus more on the filmic RGB module after some other basic edits to bring the raw file up to speed. The article in pixls was very helpful in determining which modules might not be good ones to use at this point.

I am curious where I can see how the models are sequenced in the pixel pipe. It might give me a better idea of what order I can use for each image. And I know each image will be different depending on how the camera recorded that wrong file.

 

[0000]

I've been handling a camera since the 1970s yeah I'm that old, so I clearly understand dynamic range.

For somebody who doesn't know you, it's only clear after you say so, so please don't take offense at any over-explaining.

I am curious where I can see how the models are sequenced in the pixel pipe. It might give me a better idea of what order I can use for each image. And I know each image will be different depending on how the camera recorded that wrong file.

Clicking on the module group tab/button things beneath the histogram shows you different (somewhat arbitrary) categories of modules; clicking on the leftmost one will show you the modules which are currently actively processing the image... and here's the not-so-obvious thing: clicking again on whichever tab is already selected unselects all of them, and will show you all of the available modules. The processing order is from bottom to top (true of all group views), so this will give you the big overview of how the modules are ordered by default.

This modular transparency is something I like about darktable, personally; having a sense of what's going on under the hood helps with understanding what order you might want to do things in, since the processing order remains the same regardless of what order you make changes in. This has implications, for instance, if you have a carefully adjusted parametric mask in some module, then go back to adjust the exposure module at the beginning of the "pipe"... the parametric mask later down the pipe will be seeing different values now. A good habit is to get basic exposure adjusted for mid-tones first thing... at least get close. It's also possible to add more exposure modules at different points within the RGB part of the "pipe" if you need to, but I wouldn't start moving things around until you're comfortable with darktable workflow in general; there are relatively few good reasons for doing so.

 

[0000]

Darktable 3.2 has been released:

https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/releases/tag/release-3.2.1

 

[va3pinner]

For somebody who doesn't know you, it's only clear after you say so, so please don't take offense at any over-explaining.

Clicking on the module group tab/button things beneath the histogram shows you different (somewhat arbitrary) categories of modules; clicking on the leftmost one will show you the modules which are currently actively processing the image... and here's the not-so-obvious thing: clicking again on whichever tab is already selected unselects all of them, and will show you all of the available modules. The processing order is from bottom to top (true of all group views), so this will give you the big overview of how the modules are ordered by default.

This modular transparency is something I like about darktable, personally; having a sense of what's going on under the hood helps with understanding what order you might want to do things in, since the processing order remains the same regardless of what order you make changes in. This has implications, for instance, if you have a carefully adjusted parametric mask in some module, then go back to adjust the exposure module at the beginning of the "pipe"... the parametric mask later down the pipe will be seeing different values now. A good habit is to get basic exposure adjusted for mid-tones first thing... at least get close. It's also possible to add more exposure modules at different points within the RGB part of the "pipe" if you need to, but I wouldn't start moving things around until you're comfortable with darktable workflow in general; there are relatively few good reasons for doing so.

Thank you for this, very helpful.
Now that I've started to get a feel for things, we get a new version!

 

[0000]

Now that I've started to get a feel for things, we get a new version!

Yeah, and it's a significant one in a few ways... hopefully now the dust can settle a little bit. The GUI overhaul should be mostly done, at least, and the last pieces of the module re-ordering upheaval are in place ("styles" can be used effectively with custom module orders now). I've been pretty happy using development builds leading up to this release for the last couple of months, so I'm going to try to stick to this version for now... that way, I can take part in discussions and be on the "same page".

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I will have to check it out when I get a chance.

 

[mcasan]

Rebuilt my Linux file system after I made two 2TB SSDs into one 4TB RAID 0 volume to contain my /home directory. Nice to have room for more raw images. Naturally the entire file system is backed up by TimeShift.

Now time to get Darktable updated.

 

[ABFoz]

I went native, Linux that is. Yep, free and open sourced software (FOSS). Loaded the machine with Linux Mint distro (0$) and several photo apps (0$) such as raw therapee, darktable, and GIMP.

"Fasten your seat belts. This is going to be a bumpy night."

Good choice. The open-source world is rather addictive. You may find there is a comfort lag after coming from either Mac or Windows once you get the hang of it, there is just so much control over processes and security, of course.

Is the bumpy night going to be because of the distro hopping, as well?

@junkyardsparkle is a big MU-43 resident helper for Darktable support. He’ll get you on your way!

This is good to know. The contributors at GitHub, by the way, are also very helpful.

Things I almost always tweaked were brightness and contrast, local contrast, highlights and shadows, saturation, noise reduction, sharpening, and vignette.

I am a fan of Darktable's noise reduction (NR). There is just so much control in the module. I got some people/photographers to try the application and the first thing they noticed was the efficiency of the NR module. As an MFT shooter who loves shooting in low light (and high ISO), Darktable's NR module is such a blessing.

I like the 3D Lut module, as well, even though I don't use it that much.

While some popular commercial software tries really hard to hide details related to this from the user, darktable doesn't; you're working a little more "from scratch".

^This. There is so much controllability with the software. I used to work with Windows- or Mac-based software but after trying Darktable 5 years ago, I can't find myself going back to paid software because of not having as much control.

By the way, check your versions guys. Mine is already 3.4.0-1.1. Cheers.

 

[frankmulder]

I am a fan of Darktable's noise reduction (NR).

Can you explain how you use it? Darktable's (profiled) noise reduction module is one of my main reasons not to use Darktable. (!) Whatever I do with it, I either get ugly blotches or it kills all the detail. Also, last time I checked, the workflow was a bit convoluted: you had to create two instances of the denoise module, one for luminance noise and one for chroma noise. (EDIT: Not true anymore; see below.) I'd love to learn how to use it effectively.

RawTherapee's noise reduction module always seems to do what I want. When turning it on, it only applies chroma denoising by default (which is enough up to about ISO 800, in my experience), and leaves a very pleasing grain pattern for the luminance noise. If I want the grain to go away as well, I drag the Luminance slider to the right until the grain disappears, and then drag the Luminance Detail slider to get the detail that I want.

EDIT: Quoting this from the new Darktable manual:

In the past, it was suggested that you should use two separate instances of the denoise (profiled) module. The first instance would be used together with a color blending mode to tackle chroma noise, and the second instance with a lightness blending mode to tackle luma noise.


This isn’t really recommended any more, since the denoise (profiled) module occurs early in the pixel pipe, before the input color profile (in order that the profile parameters are accurate) but color blending modes should really only be used after the input color profile has been applied.


The new algorithms in this module now provide their own methods of dealing separately with luma and chroma noise, and in both cases this can be handled within a single module instance.

And apparently there's an "auto" mode now. Didn't give excellent results on the first image that I tested it on, but the workflow does seem smoother in this newer version, and the results are also better than I remember from earlier versions.

 

[cjoliprsf]

Can you explain how you use it? Darktable's (profiled) noise reduction module is one of my main reasons not to use Darktable. (!) Whatever I do with it, I either get ugly blotches or it kills all the detail. Also, last time I checked, the workflow was a bit convoluted: you had to create two instances of the denoise module, one for luminance noise and one for chroma noise. (EDIT: Not true anymore; see below.) I'd love to learn how to use it effectively.

RawTherapee's noise reduction module always seems to do what I want. When turning it on, it only applies chroma denoising by default (which is fine up to about ISO 800, in my experience), and leaves a very pleasing grain pattern for the luminance noise. If I want the grain to go away as well, I drag the Luminance slider to the right until the grain disappears, and then drag the Luminance Detail slider to get the detail that I want.

EDIT: Quoting this from the new Darktable manual:



And apparently there's an "auto" mode now. Didn't give excellent results on the first image that I tested it on, but the workflow does seem smoother in this newer version, and the results are also better than I remember from earlier versions.

I must say this is pretty much the same reason that made me finally choose RawTherapee over DarkTable when I started using M43 cameras. Before that, I only used Canon cameras and was happy with their proprietary DPP program.

 

[va3pinner]

For those of you who use Darktable, what has been your sequence in you work flow, and does it make a difference what module is used when?
I know that is kind of subjective,but I'm curious. thanks!

 

[ABFoz]

Can you explain how you use it? Darktable's (profiled) noise reduction module is one of my main reasons not to use Darktable. (!) Whatever I do with it, I either get ugly blotches or it kills all the detail.

I always start with the profiled NR for my body but always tweak the parameters downwards from patch size to strength, especially at higher ISOs as my 25mm F/1.7 renders differently vs my 12-32mm especially at low light. The profiled NR just blurs almost everything when the 12-32mm is used.

I always use non-local means mode but if I shoot colour and want to just remove the colour noise, I use the wavelets mode.

For ISOs higher than 6400, and for the non-local means mode, I reduce the patch size from 8 to 5, search radius at 7 or depending on how much I want the patch to influence the surrounding pixels for NR. I keep the scattering higher than 0.78 and central pixel weight at 0.70+ as sometimes I get more detail at 0.90. The strength is the most sensitive, for me. At ISOs greater than 16000, I keep it at less than 0.800 but this one really depends on how much grains I want to keep. At the higher end on this parameter, the details are almost properly blurred so I play around with this on each film roll session and apply the settings to the same ISOs for better workflow.

By the way, I always use the right-click option for every parameter for maximum controllability.

I agree that RawTherapee's noise reduction is much, much, much more user-friendly than Darktable's but I just use the latter as I have different settings for B&W and for colour, and I just like the controllabilty.

For those of you who use Darktable, what has been your sequence in you work flow, and does it make a difference what module is used when?
I know that is kind of subjective,but I'm curious. thanks!

I already have set styles that I apply for either colour or black and white. I currently have four, 1)B&W with auto exposure, 2) B&W without auto exposure, 3) colour with auto exposure and 4) colour without auto exposure. I do not use auto exposure at night because Darktable would shoot up the EV too much but for daytime or ISO below 3200, auto exposure is more or less reliable. I try to nail the exposure as much as possible in-camera and even so, I noticed that my Panasonic would underexpose the RAW by 0.5 EV so I can do the exposure in post manually by just adjusting the EV by +0.5 to get the exposure that I get from my camera's JPEGs which I already customised.

In my experience, when in post, the two modules that would influence workflow are exposure and denoise (profiled). I always get the exposure I want first before applying other tweaks. Again, if it's daytime and without that much highlights, I would just use auto exposure compensation and for other scenarios, I just use +0.50 EV to get the exposure closest to the one during my shoot. If denoise is applied before the other modules are used, my workflow is slower because every time I use another image, the denoise reprocesses. Cheers.