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For sale section rant!

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by LVL8hacker, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. LVL8hacker

    LVL8hacker Mu-43 Veteran

    322
    Jan 4, 2012
    Pinehurst, North Carolina
    Larry Anderson
    Is it just me or is this whole "Paypal personal or add 3%" thing getting on your nerves.

    If you "need" to net a certain amount ....PUT IT IN THE PRICE!


    ~end rant :/
     
  2. AR-Trvlr

    AR-Trvlr Mu-43 Rookie

    16
    Jun 21, 2012
    Chamblee GA
    Frankly it's just semantics to me - $XX net or "gift or +3%" amount to the same thing.
     
  3. EP1-GF1

    EP1-GF1 Mu-43 Veteran

    312
    Apr 12, 2011
    I'm not 100% sure but isn't it against Paypal's terms and conditions to use the gift option if it isn't a gift? If that's the case then surely the gift option should not be allowed on the for sale forum (regardless of what we think about Paypal :smile: )
     
  4. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    I think you lose any buyer protection you might have with PayPal if you send as a gift.
     
  5. broadway

    broadway Mu-43 Regular

    66
    Mar 27, 2011
    UK
    Don't see why this needs a rant, not everyone has Paypal so it levels the playing field who want to pay by other methods . If you want buyer protection from Paypal you add the fees, simple really. It gives the buyer the choice.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. EP1-GF1

    EP1-GF1 Mu-43 Veteran

    312
    Apr 12, 2011
    I think it would be fine to have a Paypal price and a non Paypal price, just not a Paypal AND Paypal Gift price.

    For me the mention of Paypal Gift, when it clearly isn't, would make me wary of the seller.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  7. RevBob

    RevBob Super Moderator

    Jun 4, 2011
    NorthWestern PA
    Bob
    I agree - using the gift option removes buyer protection and circumvents fees - it's basically dishonest. Just add the three percent to the price and be done. Because it's against Paypal policy it should be forbidden on the forum - no different than sharing pirated software. Just a thought . . . :rolleyes:
     
    • Like Like x 4
  8. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    If I'm buying/selling from other forum members with good sales feedback, is there any reason to pay the 3%? I only see the protection needed for dealing with unknown sellers.
     
  9. D@ne

    D@ne Mu-43 Top Veteran

    593
    Feb 23, 2012
    Toronto
    Same could be said for stores charging tax...why don't they just include it in the price? I guess some of us want the price broken down so you know what you're paying for.

    I NEVER send a payment as a gift, and would never accept payment as a gift...you lose any right to dispute or involve Paypal any further, which is why I'm using the service to begin with. Even if someone is a trusted seller, you don't know how they'll react if something goes wrong/goes missing, etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    I don't see what the problem is. They are just spelling out the transaction cost for using a credit card. Gas stations do the same. There's one price for paying in cash and another for paying with a credit card. It gives the consumer the choice.

    The whole "gift" discussion has no bearing. In fact, it wasn't in the OP but came in later. The difference is paying with cash or with credit. If you pay with cash, the seller isn't charged a fee on PayPal. If you pay with a credit card, there is a transaction charge that PayPal passes on to the seller and thus the seller passes on to you. There's nothing dishonest about it.
     
  11. pxpaulx

    pxpaulx Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 19, 2010
    Midwest
    Paul
    That is actually illegal in many states, for the very reason people are voicing in this thread. Amin reminded me in another thread earlier this week that if you have a regular personal account it is ok to distinguish that you accept only paypal bank transfer and not a CCD payment in order to not pay the credit card fee, however offering up a no fee price with payment as gift is most definitely against paypal rules, and puts both the buyer and the seller at potential risk (when you're paying via gift, fraud can most definitely work both ways - a crooked buyer can claim fraud on their bank account, or it could be a straight up fraudulent account to begin with - those funds will be debited from your paypal account with absolutely zero recourse).

    I personally just move along if I see someone trying to break down fees in their asking price. Do the math for the buyer, protect yourself and them, and you'll likely have a much easier time selling something. I especially find it amusing when someone says paypal gift but will cover the shipping. Why go half way?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. strang

    strang Mu-43 Veteran

    287
    May 7, 2012
    I always eat the 3% PayPal fee like any good merchant would do.

    It's the cost of doing business.

    You don't pay any credit card transactions at B&H. Why would you elsewhere? So if you're buying on this forum and don't want to pay the PayPal fee, negotiate. Or skip that deal and move onto the next.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. SRHEdD

    SRHEdD Mu-43 Top Veteran

    967
    Feb 24, 2011
    Viera, Florida USA
    Steve
    I've done it without issue. I've kept my reputation spotless throughout my dealings here and on ebay. It usually becomes an option when someone counters with a lower price. I'd then say, "That price is low, but if you add 3% or send as a PP Gift, I'll accept it." Never considered it an issue before reading this, but will look at just saying, "add PP fees and it is yours" as an alternative going forward. Not a rant, a good dialouge in the end.
     
  14. strang

    strang Mu-43 Veteran

    287
    May 7, 2012
    Oh yeah if I get a low ball offer, it's only right that I recuperate my fees as a result.

    Such is life.
     
  15. Aegon

    Aegon Mu-43 Veteran

    334
    Nov 3, 2011
    Portland, OR
    I think it is annoying when the asking price doesn't include the fees.

    Especially in two particular cases: (1) when you agree to buy something at the listed price and the seller responds that you need to bump it up 3% to cover paypal, and (2) you offer to buy for "$X shipped and paypaled" and they respond "OK, but add 3% for paypal".

    I don't lose much sleep over the issue, but I'm sympathetic to the OP.
     
  16. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    re: PayPal Gift - Several people have suggested that we make a rule against it for two reasons:

    1) It doesn't give the buyer or seller any protection by PayPal

    Counterargument: Neither does paying by money order, cashier's check, uninsured credit card, wired funds, or cash, and we allow people to use those methods at their own risk.

    2) It's a violation of PayPal policy

    Counterargument: It's a violation of the law in many areas to buy/sell these things without paying tax, whether it be state tax paid by the purchaser or income tax by the seller, yet we don't make sure people pay/collect tax. There is a limit to how much control we should try to exert on people's transactions.

    ----------

    With regards to the OP, I don't mind if people say something like $400 by personal check or 3% extra for PayPal. What I don't like is when people say $400 "net to me". As a buyer, I skip any listing that gives a "net to me" price, because I have had the experience of sellers adding totally unreasonable shipping prices after I've agreed to buy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    The reason would be to adhere to the PayPal TOS and also because sometimes members with a track record of legitimacy decide to scam.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    In the United States? I can't think of even one state where it is illegal to charge different prices depending on whether cash or credit is used. It is illegal in a handful of states to have a surcharge due to payment method, but it is perfectly legal to have a discount based on payment method in all states. So in some states you can't say it'll cost 3% more if you pay with a credit card, but you can say it'll cost 3% less if you pay with cash. So in this case, it's probably better to say that the price is X dollars but there's a 3% discount if you pay with a PayPal balance or echeck.

    Can you point out where it says that it's against PayPal rules?

    PayPal explicitly says you can use a personal account to sell with. Personal accounts are not charged fees.

    "If you have a Personal account, after a certain number of payments for goods and services you will need to upgrade to a Premier account."

    https://www.paypal.com/webapps/helpcenter/article/?articleID=94008&m=SRE

    In years past, fees were charged for any payment received in a Premier account, whether in cash or credit. A couple of years ago, PayPal revised their policies. When receiving money from a cash source, PayPal balance or echeck, there will be no fee regardless of account type. A fee is only charged on credit card transactions. Makes sense since Visa/Mastercard charges PayPal for those transactions and they are passing it along. Thus whether the seller is charged a fee has no bearing on whether it's a "gift" or not, it's the funding source of the payment.
     
  19. LVL8hacker

    LVL8hacker Mu-43 Veteran

    322
    Jan 4, 2012
    Pinehurst, North Carolina
    Larry Anderson
    I have a Premier account and get charged on EVERY transaction.
     
  20. broadway

    broadway Mu-43 Regular

    66
    Mar 27, 2011
    UK
    Well that depends on if you count youself a business, I don't.