Focus Stacking Olympus / Panasonic

[retiredfromlife]

Just wondering if anyone has an EM1 & Panasonic bodies and tried the Focus Stacking on both ?
If possible I would like to know the pro's and cons on both bodies. From what I can see on the Olympus side only the EM1 has focus stacking but all the new Panasonic bodies have it. Olympus only support a few of their pro lenses, can not work out what Pansonic lenses are supported and if non Panasonic lenses are supported or not.

Looks like Olympus stacked images are full resolution but Panasonic are half resolution, is this correct? From what I can see Panasonic have better focusing aids for old film manual lenses so if they are supported Panasonic may have an edge there.

There have been very good macro shots on this forum from Olympus cameras, how would the Panasonic focus stacked images compare to the Olympus images ?

Macro is something I have started to try and focus stacking maybe a feature I compare when I purchase a new body next year so it would be good to know the differences from someone who has tried both brands.

 

[wjiang]

The E-M1 will do in-camera JPEG stacks with the 60mm macro, 12-40 and 40-150 Pro. It will also do focus bracketing with any m4/3 AF lens, with which you can then stack yourself in post (this means you can stack processed RAWs). Focus bracketing is also available on all other current generation bodies such as the E-M10 Mk2, E-M5 Mk2 and PEN-F. I've tried both methods and although it takes a little work I much prefer being able to process the RAW stack myself.

The Panasonics basically do a stack using a series of still frames grabbed from 4K video, which is why it's limited to a 8MP JPEG.

 

[retiredfromlife]

The E-M1 will do in-camera JPEG stacks with the 60mm macro, 12-40 and 40-150 Pro. It will also do focus bracketing with any m4/3 AF lens, with which you can then stack yourself in post (this means you can stack processed RAWs). Focus bracketing is also available on all other current generation bodies such as the E-M10 Mk2, E-M5 Mk2 and PEN-F. I've tried both methods and although it takes a little work I much prefer being able to process the RAW stack myself.

The Panasonics basically do a stack using a series of still frames grabbed from 4K video, which is why it's limited to a 8MP JPEG.

What lenses does the Panasonic bodies support for stacking ? I suppose from my experience I am looking for out of camera result versus post processing.

 

[Phocal]

From what I can see Panasonic have better focusing aids for old film manual lenses so if they are supported Panasonic may have an edge there.

This may be something to consider if you want to use manual focus lenses for macro photography but it will not be compatible with automatic focus stacking because the camera needs to control the focus point for that to work. Now, you could do focus stacking with manual lenses the old fashion way aka all manual.

 

[retiredfromlife]

This may be something to consider if you want to use manual focus lenses for macro photography but it will not be compatible with automatic focus stacking because the camera needs to control the focus point for that to work. Now, you could do focus stacking with manual lenses the old fashion way aka all manual.

oops..... getting mixed up with focusing aids and stacking after looking at a few youtube videos.
From what I can see Olympus has the higher quality Stacks but only supports a few lenses.
Panasonic only 8K but possibly supports all their auto focus lenses and possibly has better focusing aids if you want to do the old manual focus stacking.

I am guessing better at manual focusing stacking from this topic in same forum section.
Video: manual focus comparison between Olympus (E-M1) and Panasonic (G85)

Can anyone confirm what lenses Panasonic support for in camera focus stacking, especially if they support Panasonic & Olympus lenses.

 

[piggsy]

Looks like Olympus stacked images are full resolution but Panasonic are half resolution, is this correct? From what I can see Panasonic have better focusing aids for old film manual lenses so if they are supported Panasonic may have an edge there.

I haven't used the panasonic focus peaking stuff, but one thing to bear in mind for using manual lenses for macro is a couple of lens behaviours that can make peaking more difficult. First, with some exceptions, you're likely going to be using the lenses pre-stopped down. Second, when you're doing macro, you start losing light at roughly double the indicated aperture, so if you're at F11 on the lens, you're actually at F22 for exposure purposes if you're at 1:1 (and now you need to add m43's equivalence). Focus peaking tends to work best when it has a lot of light and can pick up on the highest contrasting edges in a scene, and at least on my E-P5, past about 1:4 at F8 in daylight or so it becomes quite useless at picking anything much up. You can try using the lens wide open, and stop down to shoot, but many lenses will slightly change the focal point as the aperture changes (separate from just changing the depth of field), which isn't great news for macro.

There have been very good macro shots on this forum from Olympus cameras, how would the Panasonic focus stacked images compare to the Olympus images ?

Macro is something I have started to try and focus stacking maybe a feature I compare when I purchase a new body next year so it would be good to know the differences from someone who has tried both brands.

TBH from my experience doing it I'm not sure I'd trust an automated system with it. Photoshop, zerene, etc, are the same, there is a very limited window of things they can deal with on their own - perspective shifts from the camera for instance are surprisingly easy for them to forgive - but once you get a slight variation in the subject's pose or any motion in the scene you are in for a lot of work. One thing I notice is that an awful lot of the images done using the in-camera stacking look like they've been taken in a fairly cool climate with no wind - dew covered bugs, long natural light exposure times, no shadows from direct sun, etc. I'm currently going through a massive pile of butterfly photos and even having flash exposures while they're pretty much asleep (or as restful as they'll get) you can end up with the head very slightly moving in relation to the body, or a very slight gust of wind, or an antenna twitches, and this completely f's photoshop's ability to stack an image by itself. And on butterflies this means that the points of a several dozen hairs or scales are now very slightly off and all need to be perspective corrected and have the sharpest bits pulled out manually from the stacks.

The one thing I actually would wish for as a macro feature to aid with focus stacking, would be for someone to make a native doubly telecentric lens with no focus breathing on it that would work well at high effective apertures.

 

[retiredfromlife]

I haven't used the panasonic focus peaking stuff, but one thing to bear in mind for using manual lenses for macro is a couple of lens behaviours that can make peaking more difficult. First, with some exceptions, you're likely going to be using the lenses pre-stopped down. Second, when you're doing macro, you start losing light at roughly double the indicated aperture, so if you're at F11 on the lens, you're actually at F22 for exposure purposes if you're at 1:1 (and now you need to add m43's equivalence). Focus peaking tends to work best when it has a lot of light and can pick up on the highest contrasting edges in a scene, and at least on my E-P5, past about 1:4 at F8 in daylight or so it becomes quite useless at picking anything much up. You can try using the lens wide open, and stop down to shoot, but many lenses will slightly change the focal point as the aperture changes (separate from just changing the depth of field), which isn't great news for macro.



TBH from my experience doing it I'm not sure I'd trust an automated system with it. Photoshop, zerene, etc, are the same, there is a very limited window of things they can deal with on their own - perspective shifts from the camera for instance are surprisingly easy for them to forgive - but once you get a slight variation in the subject's pose or any motion in the scene you are in for a lot of work. One thing I notice is that an awful lot of the images done using the in-camera stacking look like they've been taken in a fairly cool climate with no wind - dew covered bugs, long natural light exposure times, no shadows from direct sun, etc. I'm currently going through a massive pile of butterfly photos and even having flash exposures while they're pretty much asleep (or as restful as they'll get) you can end up with the head very slightly moving in relation to the body, or a very slight gust of wind, or an antenna twitches, and this completely f's photoshop's ability to stack an image by itself. And on butterflies this means that the points of a several dozen hairs or scales are now very slightly off and all need to be perspective corrected and have the sharpest bits pulled out manually from the stacks.

The one thing I actually would wish for as a macro feature to aid with focus stacking, would be for someone to make a native doubly telecentric lens with no focus breathing on it that would work well at high effective apertures.

Thanks for the good points regarding using manual lenses. The reason I was thinking of them is I have an old slide coping setup from my film days, a Minolta bellows and I think 100mm macro lens that came in a kit. Don't know if will be of any use in the future, but thought I thought I should check my options as it was an expensive bit of kit and it possibly may get used.

I think for the foreseeable future I will be using the auto focus lenses as keeping track of the bugs is hard enough at the moment. But I thought if I am going to purchase a new body next year, focus stacking may be an option I should look into as I hope my next body will last quiet a few years. I really want a build in viewfinder as my E-P5 with the viewfinder attached does not let me use a hot shoe flash.

A lot of difference between Panasonic & Olympus and hard to work out which will suit me in the long run.

Regards

 

[dweller]

Just wondering if anyone has an EM1 & Panasonic bodies and tried the Focus Stacking on both ?
If possible I would like to know the pro's and cons on both bodies. From what I can see on the Olympus side only the EM1 has focus stacking but all the new Panasonic bodies have it. Olympus only support a few of their pro lenses, can not work out what Pansonic lenses are supported and if non Panasonic lenses are supported or not.

Looks like Olympus stacked images are full resolution but Panasonic are half resolution, is this correct? From what I can see Panasonic have better focusing aids for old film manual lenses so if they are supported Panasonic may have an edge there.

There have been very good macro shots on this forum from Olympus cameras, how would the Panasonic focus stacked images compare to the Olympus images ?

Macro is something I have started to try and focus stacking maybe a feature I compare when I purchase a new body next year so it would be good to know the differences from someone who has tried both brands.

The latest Panasonics do the quick and easy 4K mode focus stacking where they churn out an 8mp jpeg in camera.
They also has a focus bracket mode where you can take a fast sequence of full raw photos at a range of focus points.
You then have to make your stack later on PC using third party software. This requires quite a bit of extra effort.

 

[retiredfromlife]

The latest Panasonics do the quick and easy 4K mode focus stacking where they churn out an 8mp jpeg in camera.
They also has a focus bracket mode where you can take a fast sequence of full raw photos at a range of focus points.
You then have to make your stack later on PC using third party software. This requires quite a bit of extra effort.

That's good to know the bracketing is full resolution.
Can you use any lens (stacking / bracketing) or only specific lenses like Olympus?

 

[Phocal]

That's good to know the bracketing is full resolution.
Can you use any lens (stacking / bracketing) or only specific lenses like Olympus?

Olympus only limits lens for the in camera focus stacking which is only available on the EM1. For focus bracking (which is on several Olympus cameras) it is only limited to µ4/3 lenses (so both Panny and Olympus lenses). This also means you can't use focus bracketing on the 4/3 lenses, which I wish I could use it on my 150/2.

 

[retiredfromlife]

Olympus only limits lens for the in camera focus stacking which is only available on the EM1. For focus bracking (which is on several Olympus cameras) it is only limited to µ4/3 lenses (so both Panny and Olympus lenses). This also means you can't use focus bracketing on the 4/3 lenses, which I wish I could use it on my 150/2.

Thanks for the clarification. Think I have the info I need now.

Regards

 

[dweller]

That's good to know the bracketing is full resolution.
Can you use any lens (stacking / bracketing) or only specific lenses like Olympus?

As far as I know you can use any native autofocus lens for these features.

 

[Phocal]

As far as I know you can use any native autofocus lens for these features.

For focus bracketing you can use any m4/3 lens. For focus stacking (which is only available on the EM1) you can only use specific lenses (believe it's the 12-40, 40-150, 300, and 60 macro).

 

[dweller]

For focus bracketing you can use any m4/3 lens. For focus stacking (which is only available on the EM1) you can only use specific lenses (believe it's the 12-40, 40-150, 300, and 60 macro).

okay, I was just referring to panasonic cameras, I don't think that they are limited to specific lenses

 

[rumplestiltskin]

okay, I was just referring to panasonic cameras, I don't think that they are limited to specific lenses

I know this is an old thread but I just asked a similar question: Will the Olympus 30mm ƒ3.5 macro work properly with Focus Bracketing on my GX85? I do know that, with my Panny lens, I get a series of photos with various focusing points that I may then drop into Affinity Photo (or other apps) to do a "photo merge". Just wanted to know if my Panny camera will do this with the Oly lens.
Thanks!

 

[Robstar1963]

I'm pretty sure you can use any af M43 lens on the Panasonics
Rob

 

[rumplestiltskin]

I did some add'l searching and found this thread to which I posted and received a positive answer. Bought the Oly for $99 at BHPhotoVideo