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Fixed lens Panasonic 43 camera rumor (announced in next few days)

Discussion in 'Micro 4/3 News and Rumors' started by WT21, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. WT21

    WT21 Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
  2. GBarrington

    GBarrington Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Just a question, can a fixed lens camera that otherwise met the m43s standards be considered and marketed as a true m43s camera? I was under the impression that the lens mount was an integral part of the m43s standard.
  3. jamesgehrt

    jamesgehrt Mu-43 Regular

    May 20, 2014
    Easthampton, Massachusetts
    James Gehrt
    I agree. I don't know about the standard but the draw for me was the ability to use old glass and have a large variety of of lens choice. Also, a zoom probably will be fairly slow. To get any real shallow depth of field with m4/3 it would be great to be at least f2.
  4. Johbremat

    Johbremat Mu-43 Regular

    Dec 5, 2013
    I thought it was a reference to the sensor.
  5. Narnian

    Narnian Nobody in particular ...

    Aug 6, 2010
    Richmond, VA
    Richard Elliott
    I liked my LX5 but I did not like sacrificing the image quality in the smaller sensor.

    An LX1000 with the m4/3 size sensor and a weather sealed body could make the perfect second camera for me.

    A 12-45 mm f/2-2.8 lens could allow it to take the place of my 14, 20 and even my 45 in many cases. The lens size would be the big issue.
  6. Livnius

    Livnius Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Melbourne. Australia
    I think this could be a very interesting release. Panasonic have been kicking some major goals lately....the GH4, GX7, GM1....all really excellent cameras and all three offering something quite progressive be it in-cam 4K video, or IBIS plus inbuilt EVF or simply being the smallest, all three cameras have been impressive releases, as such, I'm very positive about the LX1000.

    With a long list of possible features...IBIS, 4K video, EVF, the excellent new panasonic sensor, perhaps even weather sealed....if they attach a fastish zoom (f2) starting at 12mm, then I cannot see NOT getting one, even if the zoom range is only 12-30something.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Livnius

    Livnius Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Melbourne. Australia
    Regarding the lens size, keep in mind cameras such as the lens parked on the front of the rx1 ...a full frame f2 and it's tiny. The benefits of a fixed lens is that it doesn't require a mount and can be recessed somewhat into the body.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Fri13

    Fri13 Mu-43 Veteran

    Jan 30, 2014
    Mount and the imagine circle size. The standard doesn't care what size your sensor is. Only that and you have flange distance and bajonet correct.

    That's why someone can make super-16 size sensor or IBIS or multiratio sensor.

    There can be a limitation in the standard that your active sensor size can't be bigger than Xmm*Ymm.

    But the interesting part is, 4/3 standard had mount and flange and m4/3 has shorter flange and smaller mount but both has same imagine circle.

    So does the m4/3 standard require to have bajonet in camera?
  9. Johbremat

    Johbremat Mu-43 Regular

    Dec 5, 2013
    Possible a lens comparable to the P12-35 wouldn't necessarily use the same element array, and they tailoring the sensor (while conforming to Four Thirds) may allow them to create a smaller package again?

  10. WT21

    WT21 Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    OK, so here's an interesting question:

    If this was a 12-40/2.8 or maybe even 2.0-2.8, and assuming m43's well-earned reputation of fast AF and operations, would this replace the need for the Oly and Panny normal f/2.8 zooms (e.g. Panny 12-35 and Oly 12-40)?
  11. Johbremat

    Johbremat Mu-43 Regular

    Dec 5, 2013
    Reckon it'd be market audience than technical specification.

    You'd have to compare cost of lens versus camera, workflow, preference for carrying one or more bodies...
  12. GBarrington

    GBarrington Mu-43 Top Veteran

    No, there are a whole raft of standards that define m43s.
  13. LovinTheEP2

    LovinTheEP2 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Feb 15, 2011
    m43s is simply the sensor size.. Not mount. Be silly at this point with the great range of lenses for anyone come up with their own mount for the sensor size..

    As for the fixed lens offering, for it to be successful, it will depend on what the lens is and if evf button. If panasonic do it like the Fuji have like x100s... Could be a great offering. If no evf and or slow lens by making it a power zoom ... Then I doubt it will be well received.
  14. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    I really hope its a more normal view (25mm or zoom), last thing the world needs is another 28mm fixed lens compact.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. GBarrington

    GBarrington Mu-43 Top Veteran

    This is from the Wikipedia article on Micro Four Thirds (translated from German by Google). There is more, but I think these paragraphs do indicate there is more to the standard than sensor size.

    "In early August 2008, Panasonic and Olympus as a further development of the Four Thirds standards for DSLR systems the so-called Micro Four Thirds System standard presented for mirrorless cameras. [SUP][5][/SUP] With this compact are camera systems with interchangeable lenses possible. The new standard uses a half as large flange of only 19.62 millimeters, what use at SLR makes practically impossible, but with high image quality relatively small designs for system cameras possible. [SUP][2][/SUP] The bayonet mount is narrower in its unaltered format used by 6 millimeters . [SUP][6][/SUP]The elimination of the oscillating mirror allows greater freedom in lens design; especially in wide angle , the rear element of the lens can similarly viewfinder cameras closer to the sensor, which for example by telecentric can be exploited imaging lenses to optimize image quality. [SUP][7][/SUP] This has also meant that Micro Four Thirds cameras for both still image capture as well as video recordings exclusively with Live View feature functions. [SUP][6][/SUP] Since no additional sensors are provided which automatically has focus (AF) or motif analysis (for example, face recognition ) where appropriate, using the signals of the image sensor be controlled, and any variable areas can be evaluated within the entire image. [SUP][8][/SUP]
    With an adapter and electrical compatibility, the use of lenses of the Four Thirds standards is also possible, although Micro Four Thirds with eleven contacts has two more than the normal Four Thirds standard. The additional contacts are used for the acceleration of communication between camera body and lens, which can be important when shooting video in particular. [SUP][2][/SUP]

    Sensor size ]The screen size of Micro Four Thirds sensors is equal to those of the Four Thirds standards and is 21.63 millimeters with exactly half the diagonal of the small aspect ratio (43.267 mm), which is a form factor equivalent of 2.0.The normal focal length is therefore approximately at 25 millimeters. This image sensor size is slightly smaller than the image in 35-millimeter movie talkies and yet still allows a continuous operation, without the sensor temperature to be greatly increased by the increasing difficulty in increasingly large sensors sensor cooling, which regardless of the sensor size is an increased dark current noise result has. [SUP][9][/SUP]

    Most cameras have an image sensor with an aspect ratio of 4: 3 and an optically active area of 17.31 mm × 12.98 mm (area 224.64 mm), with some camera housing a multi-format sensor have in which at various aspect ratios of the full image circle is utilized, such as the Panasonic DMC-GH1 [SUP][10][/SUP] or the DMC-GH2 [SUP][11][/SUP] . This allows for the aspect ratio 4: 3 (4608 × 3456 pixels 17.31 mm × 12.98 mm), 3: 2 (4752 × 3168 pixels 17.85 mm × 11.90 mm) and 16: 9 (4976 × 2800 pixels 18.69 mm × 10.52 mm) using the maximum screen size (data for the DMC-GH2). [SUP][2]

    Communication between the camera and accessories

    A central feature of the system are intelligent components, which through electrical contacts with each other via a standard well-defined bi-directional communication protocol. All Micro Four Thirds lenses are therefore with its own main processor equipped. [SUP][12][/SUP]
    In this way, information will be subject distance , aperture selection and focal length as with competing systems electronically exchanged between camera and lens. The Micro Four Thirds system may further but also individual characteristics of lens, such as characteristics of the distortion or vignetting transferred to the camera, what a digital compensation of aberrations allows."
  16. sphexx

    sphexx Mu-43 Regular

    Feb 19, 2010
    Harrogate, Yorkshire
  17. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    I think a four thirds sensor in a fixed lens has tremendous potential! It's smaller than the aps-c offerings but benefits from a lot of advancements from Panasonic and Olympus already.

    If Panasonic made an X100 equivalent with true manual controls for everything, I'd be totally ensnared. They already have a great rangefinder look in the GX7 as well.

  18. nstelemark

    nstelemark Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    May 28, 2013
    Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
    It was called the canon G1X ;) .
    • Like Like x 1
  19. LovinTheEP2

    LovinTheEP2 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Feb 15, 2011
    Only issue I see is if the keep the form factor gm'ish or ep-x ish... Lucky it isn't olympus or else it would be thicker then a sony rx1
  20. Dave Reynell

    Dave Reynell Guest

    A built-in EVF would also be nice !
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