1. Reminder: Please use our affiliate links for holiday shopping!

First unflattering review of GX7 EVF/IBIS changing anyone's mind?

Discussion in 'Panasonic Cameras' started by jpark1982, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. jpark1982

    jpark1982 Mu-43 Regular

    57
    Aug 3, 2013
    After reading nothing but positive reports, it appears the first unflattering report of the GX7 has appeared.

    A First Look at the Panasonic Lumix GX7 in Bristol | MirrorLessons – The Best Mirrorless Camera Reviews 2013

    It particular two of the features that I was most looking forward to, the EVF and the IS were less than stellar according to their reports.

    The EVF while looking great on paper didn't deliver. I did read that it was good, not great from other sources but this is one of the first I can recall that compared It directly to the VF-4. And maybe the VF-4's detachable is just that much more fantastic while the GX7's is serviceable but at least for me I would rather have an A+ detachable EVF than a C+ built in.

    Same goes for the IS. Some IS is better than none I suppose but again it seems at least according to their reports that its less than stellar. While I knew that it wasn't going to be as effective as the 5-axis, at least I hoped that it would be noticeable. But again at least according to this, more of a spec filler than it is effective in the real world.

    This just goes to show that there is no such thing as a perfect camera. And specs on paper can be misleading. On paper the GX7 looked to be as close as I can recall for my needs. I'll still keep my preorder as I want to see if I can make do with these 2 issues but at least now I think I may at least pick up a E-P5 and give it s fair shot. I know that the E-P5 has its share of issues too (flash too easily triggered, smaller grip, not as good video, etc) so I don't want my post to be confused with any Olympus ******ism.

    Anyone have any thoughts?
     
  2. dougjgreen

    dougjgreen Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 5, 2013
    San Diego
    Doug Green
    Well, she seems to think that the image stabilization works well for video - which established to me that she doesn't know what she's talking about.

    And her review of the camera's IBIS was completely worthless. No mention of what lens she was using, and no description of how well it performed at speeds between, say 1/8 sec and 1/30th of a second. Only that at speeds of 1/5th of a second or slower (again, with some unknown lens) there was some detectable blur (and actually, at 1/5th sec, it was rather slight). The net result is that, the IBIS could very well be good for 2 to 2.5 stops, and she would never have known it from what she tested - I would actually guess, by virtue of the results she saw at 1/5th second that the IBIS is good for perhaps 2 stops. Not spectacular, not in the class of 5 axis IBIS in the OM-D, but certainly still useful.

    I've never seen a less useful evaluation of IBIS in a camera in my life.

    And her comments about the viewfinder really never compared it to any other camera's built-in viewfinder, only to the best available external one out there. I got the sense that she doesn't normally use a finder to compose, but rather, tends to use the LCD. There is a picture of her composing a shot off of the LCD that seems to reinforce that impression.

    The other point is, she said that, overall she really liked the camera and wants to take it home. Nonetheless, I would have to conclude that she knows nothing about how to evaluate a camera, and I would tend to discount everything that she said, other than the fact that she had to squint into the finder to see the image. What that means for me, quite simply, is that I'd want to look into a GX7's finder before laying out $1000 for one.
     
  3. stratokaster

    stratokaster Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 4, 2011
    Kyiv, Ukraine
    Pavel
    The emphasized part suggests that the diopter adjustment was probably off.
     
  4. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    - I'll take the integrated EVF with an unflattering IBIS
    - I've never shot with 5-Axis IBIS so I don't know what I'm missing
    - I've shot tons of shots without any kind of IBIS

    :smile:
     
  5. htc

    htc Mu-43 Top Veteran

    579
    Jan 11, 2011
    Finland
    Harry
    Pana 20 mm
     
  6. dougjgreen

    dougjgreen Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 5, 2013
    San Diego
    Doug Green
    Where does it say that? There is no indication of that, and all of the photos show her with the kit lens on the camera - and that no f-stop faster than 4.4 was used would indicate otherwise - more likely the 14-42 II, shot at 20mm
     
  7. stratokaster

    stratokaster Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 4, 2011
    Kyiv, Ukraine
    Pavel
    LOL. You don't test any IS system like this. Image blurring due to camera shake is a stochastic event. To accurately assess the effectiveness of an IS system at any given shutter speed you need to shoot a large number of images with the IS on and off and then compare results statistically. Some random shots taken in a camera store can not and will not serve as a valid basis for comparison.

    And, frankly speaking, the shutter speeds she was shooting at were REALLY long. We're talking about tripod territory here.
     
  8. stratokaster

    stratokaster Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 4, 2011
    Kyiv, Ukraine
    Pavel
    +1. I think image stabilization is really overrated. People talk about non-stabilized camera/lens combos like it's the end of the world. Truth is, for the most part IS is useful only if you're shooting either with unreasonably long lenses or completely static subjects. If you're shooting anything that moves, you need to keep your shutter speed FAST, otherwise your images will be blurred because of subject motion. IS can't stop subject motion and thus is of limited use (at least for me personally).
     
  9. dougjgreen

    dougjgreen Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 5, 2013
    San Diego
    Doug Green
    It's clearly useful with long legacy telephotos and macro lenses - which are the places I would expect to use it. Two stops makes a big difference in terms of being able to hand-hold these lenses at speeds in the range of 1/60th of a second or so.

    I personally use manual legacy primes of 85mm, 90 or 105mm macro, 200mm, 300mm, and the 200 and 300mm lenses with 2x teleconverters. While I doubt that I'll hand-hold the 300mm lens ever, IBIS makes a big difference with the 200mm lens with or without the TC, and some noticeable difference with the 85mm lens
     
  10. stratokaster

    stratokaster Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 4, 2011
    Kyiv, Ukraine
    Pavel
    For me the biggest challenge when using long manual lenses is holding the camera steadily while framing, not when actually taking the shot. It was clear from the beginning that the IBIS in the GX7 was going to be useless for that because it activates only when you take the picture. As far as I know, the only cameras which show the effects of IBIS in live view are Olympus OM-D E-M5 and E-P5 (and probably also Pentax K5-II which uses the same principle of magnetic levitation and can operate its IBIS continuously while recording video).
     
  11. zapatista

    zapatista Mu-43 Top Veteran

    668
    Mar 19, 2012
    Denver, Colorado, USA
    Mike
    The IBIS in the EM-5 is truly completely and totally addicting. Then again, so is the grip on the G5. :p
     
  12. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Hmmm....I can't relate to what you're talking about...:cloud-9-039:
     
  13. RoadTraveler

    RoadTraveler Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 23, 2012
    I'm not sure I'd call the overall review unflattering, possibly just critical, which is not always bad. Overall I’d say the tone was fair, even upbeat.

    I have no idea as to her qualification to review, though something I caught at the beginning was:

    ...it was indeed a very short amount of reviewing 'saddle time'.

    Her comments about the Oly viewfinder vs. the GX7's viewfinder were interesting because I've been wondering about how the GX7's live viewfinder will compare to the LVF2 I like using on my GX1s. I like what I see, how my eye meets the finder, and also how my face stays off the LCD.

    I won't be surprised if I prefer the quality of the GX7's live viewfinder, but I’m curious about the user interface (including the diopter adjustment that I need) and how this relates to my overall use of a GX7 compared to a GX1 w/LVF2.

    There will be only one way to find out :wink:
     
  14. htc

    htc Mu-43 Top Veteran

    579
    Jan 11, 2011
    Finland
    Harry
    Sorry, I thought you where after the focal length. That's 20 mm. I would imagine that she can turn that lens OIS off so then it should be all the same is it the kit or the prime? On the other hand she's speaking of Power OIS and I thought it's only "nearly as good as Mega OIS" (specs in Adorama ad), so who knows. :rolleyes:
     
  15. dejongj

    dejongj Mu-43 Veteran

    230
    Jun 3, 2013
    Whipsnade, UK
    Jean-Paul
    I think what is good about the review is how it may remind some people that specs on a piece of paper or internet does not equal the best thing...Also that what is best for one does not mean it is best for everyone.

    I mean Heather's point about the EVF could be very valid, I mean even if it is not as good as the VF4 (which is very very good), and I would class the one in my G6 as not as good. That doesn't mean it is bad, or not good enough for most. Those who prefer the EVF built-in will most likely be happy to make a compromise on that point.

    Likewise with the comments on the feel of the thing, it is exactly what I feared about Panasonic (in my opinion) messing up. Too light and too plastic in feel. I really do not like that, it is something I can't stand of my G6 but forgive it for its video performance. I much prefer the heavier full metal feel of the E-P5. But note it is what I prefer, people are different and some will prefer the lightweight feel of it and don't think it is cheap and nasty.

    My only previous experiences with image stabilisation has been Nikon's VR on the 70-200, and Panasonic's OIS on the 35-100. Olympus 5-axis definitely blows it away, people can rip a blogger apart all they want but in my experience the flaw isn't the test method of the blogger ;)

    Now I do shoot a lot of film, and generally street I've never been a big advocate for image stabilisation. Now I've experienced it, it is a great tool in the toolbox, but got to admit it wasn't and still isn't the be and end all feature for me when selecting a camera. Likewise with an EVF, I've always been an optical guy, but I do appreciate a good EVF now. And with focus peaking, I've always done it manually just fine. But gosh it is great to focus peak. I actually prefer the white colour on the PEN to the blue on the Panasonic. Hopefully they've improved it on the GX7 compared to the G6, but I found the PEN quicker to respond and kick in. But again it is good enough on the G6 fantastic with video :)

    Anyway I think it is good that some slightly more critical reports come out as well as it helps people to identify what is important to them, and double check when checking it out as it may not be a decision maker for them as well.

    I've got to admit one thing, seeing it in black on that blog, it does look a lot nicer than black/chrome on the gx7. I'll try and see it as well in a local shop.
     
  16. htc

    htc Mu-43 Top Veteran

    579
    Jan 11, 2011
    Finland
    Harry
    I agree that it's not the end of anything but if we are interested (like we should) of development of MFT world we should also let Panasonic and Olympus know what’s good and what’s not. That "I'm not using IS anyhow" would not get us anywhere.

    Also there are lot of situations where subject CAN move and that motion make's that picture. Shooting only in bright sun light is kind of limiting your options, if I may overdo a bit :biggrin:

    And don't get me wrong. I sincerely hope that GX7 is THE newest thing in MFT world in terms of IQ because that's the only way to boost the progress.

    But again, different needs, different gears :smile:
     

    Attached Files:

  17. DHart

    DHart Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 7, 2010
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Don
    As with all the hype and hoopla over the EM5, there certainly is a huge wave of hype and hoopla developing over the GX7.

    Ultimately, I don't doubt that it's going to be a wonderful camera. But it isn't going to end starvation and world discord. It will be be like any human creation... striving, but not perfect, nor everyone's idea of nirvana.

    My expectations are tempered and I think we're going to find it a slightly flawed, yet wonderful new camera! :smile:

    So.... what's coming after the GX7, the EP6 ???? :wink:
     
  18. htc

    htc Mu-43 Top Veteran

    579
    Jan 11, 2011
    Finland
    Harry
    This old biker would like to add that black is the fastest color also :thumbup:
     
  19. dejongj

    dejongj Mu-43 Veteran

    230
    Jun 3, 2013
    Whipsnade, UK
    Jean-Paul
    The Leica version of the GX7 :redface:, shortly followed by Pentax entrance in :43:
     
  20. Chrisnmn

    Chrisnmn Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 26, 2012
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Chris
    My thoughts are, if you read a lot of good reviews, then 1 lukewarm/bad review pops up and, that becomes your "real expectation" of the camera to follow? what tha...

    NO camera in the face of the planet is going to get now or never, full positive reviews, as all people is different. If you are stoked about the camera, buy it and try it, if YOU dont like it, then, sell it or return it. if YOU like it and gives you what you want/need, then who the hell cares about this OTHER blog thinks about it?.

    by all means, theres NO bad camera these days, there are ones with more quirks than others, but they all deliver more than enough juice and IQ needed in most cases. the problem is so many options.

    Just get what you want not what another blog tells you to get.