First step into macro (30 mm vs raynox)

Petrochemist

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I think what you're seeking to express is the infinity focus magnification M∞ ≈ f₁/f₂ where f₁ is the focal length of the rear lens mounted on the body in the coupled pair of lenses and, for a close up lens of diopter power D, f₂ = 1000 mm / D. Whilst the Raynox DCR-150 and 250 provide f₂ of 208 or 125 mm, and it's therefore not difficult to choose f₁ for M > 1, it's also common to choose f₂ = 50 mm or f₂ = 18-20 mm. In the context of useful (non-empty) optical magnifications reaching 1000-2000x I'm unsure I'd describe even the latter f₂ as far beyond 1x. Perhaps more of a viewpoint from microscopy than from photography, though.
Yes that was probably the formula (I have it in a spread sheet along with loads of other technical junk).
IMO using a supplementary dioptre with a lens in the region of 18-20mm is a sign you don't understand their use! Extension tubes work much better for these very short focal lengths.

Most macro lenses only reach 1x without extras, and even the likes of the MP-E65 stop at 5x. The Raynoxes on fairly normal lenses surpass the magnification of normal macro lenses. The combination won't have the flat field true macro lenses manage, but for most uses this isn't relevant.

If your after magnifications above 10x, you've gone out of the realms of macrophotography & into photomicrography (using a microscope) My microscope claims 1600x max but in reality anything more than about 400x is empty magnification, and photographs struggle beyond ~100x. DOF on all these is REALLY short. Stacking 7 shots across the width of a flies foot proved far too little and I couldn't adjust the focus control subtly enough to manage more.
 

Petrochemist

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One thing I have not seen mentioned here yet is a reversed lens - this is achieved typically by cutting out a camera-body cap and gluing it back to back to a cut-out lens cap. This way a lens (something typically 40 - 60mm) is mounted to the camera in reverse. You lose AF, and normally aperture control as well (that depends on the lens), but you can get incredibly sharp results for very little outlay. To test the suitability of any lens you have simply hold it reversed to your camera and see if you like the results!

Impressive shot!

When using reversed lenses I just use reversing/coupling rings that screw into the filter threads. Reversing rings mount the lens directly to the body or on tubes, coupling rings mount it to another lens. Using the coupled approach you can still have AF (not that it helps much when the focusing range is so small).
I've managed about 6x lifesize with a 28mm reversed on a 200mm, but the shot badly needed a hood...
 

Macroramphosis

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When using reversed lenses I just use reversing/coupling rings that screw into the filter threads. Reversing rings mount the lens directly to the body or on tubes, coupling rings mount it to another lens.

Indeed - but I was just trying to make life a little cheaper and easier for the OP as he seems to be quite remote in eastern Europe :D
 

Petrochemist

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Indeed - but I was just trying to make life a little cheaper and easier for the OP as he seems to be quite remote in eastern Europe :D
I hadn't spotted that but the rings are only a few pounds each, hardly more than spare caps to cut up (and much more secure).
For the initial tests simply holding the lens in place works well enough,
It's definitely worth doing first with coupled lenses as not all combinations work well, some give significant vignetting.
 

archaeopteryx

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One thing I have not seen mentioned here yet is a reversed lens - this is achieved typically by cutting out a camera-body cap and gluing it back to back to a cut-out lens cap.
As @Petrochemist mentioned, there's like a jillion low cost adapters which do the same thing on eBay. I'd go with one of those for reversing a single lens (not to be confused with reversing the front lens in a coupled pair, but often not clearly distinguished).

(something typically 40 - 60mm)
(28 and 35 mm are more typical in my experience as less extension is required. The Lomo 3,7x finite objective, which is a 43 mm, is something of an exception. It probably has good availability in eastern Europe but, even pushed down, seems too much magnification for the OP.)

You lose AF, and normally aperture control as well (that depends on the lens), but you can get incredibly sharp results for very little outlay.
There are remote mount adapters to restore the functionality. Usually they're somewhat expensive, though sometimes people hack cables onto auto extension tubes a low cost alternative. Either approach can be expensive in terms of working distance.

Probably the tester of most interest here is Robert O'Toole, who generally finds in favour of coupled lenses for ultimate quality, though Mark Goodman and to some degree Enrico Savazzi have posted rather a bit as well. Many of us would probably be happy simply to have Robert's budget, I think, and it's probably fair to say a well chosen single reversed lens can outperform a coupled lens arrangement capable of autofocus bracketing optically at similar cost as all of the funds are put toward image quality. A more complete analysis, which includes the focus stacking rail and mounting hardware for a single reversed lens, tends to favour autofocus from coupled lenses. Autofocus bracketing is relatively new, however, with less identification of good coupled lens combinations.

IMO using a supplementary dioptre with a lens in the region of 18-20mm is a sign you don't understand their use!
Hi, I think you've confused f₂ for f₁. Coupled pairs with f₂ = 18-20 mm typically implement it by using a 10x infinity corrected microscope objective as the front lens. The rear lens is usually chosen for magnification in the 5-15x range, therefore being 100-300 mm-ish.

My microscope claims 1600x max but in reality anything more than about 400x is empty magnification, and photographs struggle beyond ~100x. DOF on all these is REALLY short. Stacking 7 shots across the width of a flies foot proved far too little and I couldn't adjust the focus control subtly enough to manage more.
Yeah, I'm not really a fan of 1000+x, preferring to work at 400x when I can get away with it, which is usually. The scopes I use most regularly to do yield at 1000x but get fiddly with the condenser.

If [you're] after magnifications above 10x, you've gone out of the realms of macrophotography & into photomicrography (using a microscope).
Mmm, 20x objectives at 10-30x are fairly common in ardent studio macrophotography (not that vibration isolated, optical table-like studio macrophotography rigs capable of that magnification are common). A few people do go up to 100x objectives in macrophotography, though 40 and 60x are more common less vanishingly rare.

For now I'm not really motivated to use more than a 10x objective in the field but I could probably push my current setup to 18x if I had to. It's easier than studio in that there isn't urban vibration to manage, harder in that lighting has to be portable and that wind makes subject and camera motion. Moss communities have the great convenience of usually being under the boundary layer (mat formation is a communal exohydry optimization for individual poikilohydry) so at least subject motion is generally pretty low.
 

hoggdoc

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I have a legacy +3.3 achromat, a Raynox DCR-250 +8 achromat as well as a set of electronic 10mm, 16mm, 21mm extension tubes.

I don't think the Marumi achromats (or the Raynox for that matter) are all that good value new - I'd find one used if at all possible. But they do work well with a consumer grade telephoto like the 40-150R (I used to use mine on that lens). For extreme magnification they also work rather well stacked with a tele-macro like the 60mm.

Plants - 30mm macro is fine, probably ideal, unless you're going for pollen detail or something that requires you to go equally close up. Insects - I'd go for a longer working distance.
For insects the obvious issue is scaring them, but for both plants and insects at a short working distance you may run into the issue of the lens blocking natural light, forcing you have to worry about providing artificial lighting.

As for extension tubes - they are designed for short focal length lenses, which doesn't help with your working distance problem. They also don't work very well for micro four thirds, since most of them are designed for SLRs and have way too much extension when mounted on a short focal length lens (I haven't seen any extension less than 10mm). Definitely get electronic ones because you will be stopping down, and if you plan to focus stack AF is also required.

Regarding DoF - it's a wash between different macro techniques. At macro magnifications, the simplified DoF equations break down and become much more dependent on your magnification than the focal length - you'll get about the same DoF at the same magnification irrespective of whether you use a extension, dioptres, or a true macro lens. You'll have an extremely thin DoF no matter what, so you will have to stop down or focus stack in all cases.


All very good information and suggestions.
 

hoggdoc

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I own a Raynox 250 which I used together with my Panasonic fz1000.
The reason I chose the above was its price and easy clip on.
I wanted to try macro out first and see how much I would like it.
After using the Raynox for a while I decided to buy the Olympus 60mm second hand :)
Plz don't ask me any technical stuff, I am very bad at that :)

Photos below are taken with the Panasonic fz1000 and Raynox 250.

View attachment 776568

View attachment 776569


Wow incredible images especially considering the camera used. It kind of makes me wonder why I have all the equipment in my kit, LOL
 

hoggdoc

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My 55mm Micro Nikkor cost me less than 50 USD.
And it isn't a big lens, maybe close to the Panasonic 12-60, and just as light.
Way more bulky are the tripod and 4-way rail. These are critical, because I cannot hold the camera still enough at the very close macro distances.

I'm curious, what kind of working distances are you getting using that lens and what body are you using it on?
 

hoggdoc

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You buy the diopters, then a set of tubes, and then finally you figure out what you really need is a macro lens.
Then when you finally get the macro lens, all the other stuff, you keep in a drawer and never use again.

Very good point and a real eye opener for those of us that what to save a buck and end spending twice as much.
 

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