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First attempt at indoor sports (roller derby)

Discussion in 'Sports and Action' started by KatieWondergirl, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. KatieWondergirl

    KatieWondergirl New to Mu-43

    3
    Nov 8, 2018
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    Most of these are at ISO 6400 and 1/400 shutter speed using the EM1ii and Olympus 40-150f2.8... my kid was playing and there wasn’t a pro there taking pictures so I thought I’d try. I got a few hundred keepers, and definitely learned a lot I will try to apply next time... here are just a few :) 
     
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  2. PannyPaul

    PannyPaul Mu-43 Regular

    73
    Aug 8, 2017
    what f stop did you use? I always tend to shoot wide open indoors to keep the iso and noise down. I find 1600 is about the most acceptable. Great pics though that convey the atmosphere.
     
  3. KatieWondergirl

    KatieWondergirl New to Mu-43

    3
    Nov 8, 2018
    2.8... the lighting at that venue is notoriously bad :(  I hope to take some more pictures at other venues when our team travels, as I know that while all of them are less than ideal, this one is especially dim!

    Thanks for the kind words.
     
  4. PannyPaul

    PannyPaul Mu-43 Regular

    73
    Aug 8, 2017
    Yep sometimes you just got to work with what you got. My daughter used to skate and her rink was really dim too. Nobody ever considers the photographer :) 
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Oly Roller

    Oly Roller New to Mu-43

    4
    Jan 13, 2019
    Nevada City, CA
    I started shooting roller derby in 2018 and have found the lighting to be consistently horrible. A lot of the photogs I've met use off-camera flash (speedlights mostly) and others shoot at 6400 ambient with 2.8 glass. I chose to go with on camera flash (although with a bracket for a bit of separation) because I don't have the OC flash units and my images really suffer past 3200. Yours came out pretty well and the E-M1ii obviously does a lot better than mine at higher ISOs.
     
  6. Matt Drown

    Matt Drown Mu-43 Veteran

    249
    Dec 9, 2015
    California, USA
    If there are no pro's, ask to shoot from the infield :)  My limited experience with Derby is that everyone is really friendly!

    Crappy lights are par for the course with derby in my experience. Embrace the noise and shoot at the iso that allows you to freeze the skaters. Convert to B&W to hide some of noise if you want. One suggestion, pull back a bit on your shots so you don't chop of the feet of the skaters, you can crop a bit in post easily.

    Shots look good, good luck on the next bout.
     
  7. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter Subscribing Member

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    Embrace the noise! There’s a battle cry. Is roller derby played outside of North America? I really have no idea.
     
  8. Rollasaurus

    Rollasaurus Mu-43 Regular Subscribing Member

    51
    Dec 27, 2018
    Evansville IN USA
    Most venues are awful for photography . Our local roller derby league has a pro that comes in and sets up several flashes, on lightstands, before the bout. He also does all the leagues headshots and any photo shoots outside of bouts.
     
  9. Rollasaurus

    Rollasaurus Mu-43 Regular Subscribing Member

    51
    Dec 27, 2018
    Evansville IN USA
    Roller derby is played around the world. There are over a 1000 leagues worldwide. We had the London Rollergirls play in our city, a few years ago when we hosted part of the world championship playoff tournament.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  10. Apollo T.

    Apollo T. Mu-43 Veteran

    373
    Dec 27, 2016
    Northern New Jersey
    I’m a bit confused here...I’ve always thought that flash at an indoor sporting or other action event can be a huge distraction to your subjects that it can/will effect their performnce. I recall a televised boxing match where the referee delayed the start of a round to have the announcer remind people that a flash may lead to distraction leading to injury.
    Also, a professional dancer said that’s one reason that cameras, especially with flash are NOT allowed at B’way shows. Imagine a dancer missing a step nd falling.
    Or is all this hogwash?
     
  11. Rollasaurus

    Rollasaurus Mu-43 Regular Subscribing Member

    51
    Dec 27, 2018
    Evansville IN USA
    It is a problem in some events, but the way they are positioned for the bouts they aren’t a problem. They did a few test runs, at practices, before the league ok’d the use for the sanctioned bouts.
     
  12. Oly Roller

    Oly Roller New to Mu-43

    4
    Jan 13, 2019
    Nevada City, CA
    I only have one season under my belt, but I shot 17 bouts and used flash at all except one. I always ask first and was never turned down. The first few bouts I asked random skaters if the flash bothers them and without exception got the same response: "What flash?"
     
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  13. Apollo T.

    Apollo T. Mu-43 Veteran

    373
    Dec 27, 2016
    Northern New Jersey
    Thanks!
    I recently took a look at a schedule for several indoor events so I could practice. You’ve cleared away the last excuse to not getting out there.
     
  14. Matt Drown

    Matt Drown Mu-43 Veteran

    249
    Dec 9, 2015
    California, USA
    Here's a shot in London, I think Swansea City vs London?
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    To keep it on-topic, the bout photog (back left) had a couple (can't remember 2 to 4) remote speedlights on posts in the corners to illuminate. If you are lucky to get a lower ceiling, you can bounce like this, but is more gear than just shooting on-camera.

    You can practice panning at derby also, but if you can get the skaters face it's going to be a better shot (shoot from the infield if you can). Here's something when you don't get the face.
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    Go back and shoot some more!
     
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  15. IvanTheT3rribl3

    IvanTheT3rribl3 Mu-43 Rookie

    22
    Mar 5, 2019
    This is such a great and informative thread. Quick question to those of you who have shot derby firsthand: If you could only have one, would you rather have a 25mm prime f/1.8 or a 45mm prime f/1.8? I've only got the budget for one before my wife's first bout next weekend (eventually I'll be grabbing one or both of the f/2.8 PRO zooms when budget allows) and I'm curious which focal length is more suited to shooting from outside the track (her league is well staffed with officials and the infield is generally off-limits to photogs because of the chaos of people already there for scoring). I've got an E-M5 Mk 2 and the 14-150mm f/5.6 which I know will be WAY too darn slow for any action shots, even in what I believe to be a decently lit venue (it is a white walled helicopter hangar, well lit but the lights are high on the ceiling).

    Also, should I even bother with the flash that came with the E-M5 for derby, or should I just leave it, and my shame in the eyes of the other much more prepared derby photogs, at home?
     
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  16. Matt Drown

    Matt Drown Mu-43 Veteran

    249
    Dec 9, 2015
    California, USA
    45mm from the sidelines, but bring your zoom also and try some with it (starting jams, and things with less motion).
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    Depends on the event and who is running it. I used to shoot a martial arts tournament and the grandmaster allowed flash during all competitions for those of us working. I asked why and he said that if a martial artist is distracted by a flash of light at his tournaments, then they need more discipline and training.

    Then, I was basically told by a priest at a Catholic wedding that if I used flash or he even noticed me that he would stop the ceremony and have me removed.

    You'd think those would be reversed...but such is the limitations we are bound to from time to time.
     
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  18. IvanTheT3rribl3

    IvanTheT3rribl3 Mu-43 Rookie

    22
    Mar 5, 2019
    Thanks! I'll order it today! I'll be glad to have a solid portrait prime as it is, I won't really need a more wide angle prime until later this year when I travel to Europe. And I'll definitely bring my big zoom at try it out, I'm just not expecting much from an f/5.6 knowing what the lighting in this venue is like. Maybe I'll get lucky and time a few shots when the pros' flashes are going off XD. Thanks for the insights, I'll be sure to share my results! Derby is great!
     
  19. ac12

    ac12 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 24, 2018
    In LOW light environment, FAST glass wins. You may have to ditch the zoom for a prime.
    When I shoot high school gym sports, dim light and FAST action, I ditched the zoom for a f/1.8 prime. That prime is 1 stop faster than the pro f/2.8 zooms, and is the difference between shooting at ISO 3200 or 6400.

    As for 25 vs. 45, it depends on distance and coverage.
    With an APS-C camera I've used both 35 and 50mm lenses to shoot volleyball.
    - 35 for the wider or closer shots.
    - 50 for the farther shots.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Baenwort

    Baenwort Mu-43 Regular

    76
    Aug 22, 2017
    Wisconsin, USA
    I've developed a love for the Sigma 1.4 lens, if the size doesn't bother you, as they have great sharpness across the frame on a m43 body since they are optically designed for a Sony E-mount body but with m43 mount and electronics.

    They're on sale right now but I think from your budget comment the 56mm f1.4 would be out of your budgetary limit.

    It is hard to beat the Olympus 45mm f1.8 for the combo of speed, price, and sharpness.
     
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