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Field testing of Panasonic 35-100 and oly 75

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by the_traveler, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. the_traveler

    the_traveler Mu-43 Veteran

    204
    Sep 12, 2011
    Columbia, MD
    Lew Lorton
    I was initially concerned about the IQ of a M4.3 for what I shoot so I satisfied myself that it was adequate for me before starting to sell off my Nikon stuff.

    I bought the best lenses available for the body; my reasoning being that it is silly to get a fine sensor and strain the images through a Coke bottle bottom

    These are two 100% crops of pictures taken yesterday walking around DC in pretty bad shooting conditions, high sun, no shade to speak of with 35-100 2.8 Panasonic (70-200 equivalent) at 2.8 and 100 and 75 mm 1.8 Olympus taken at 2.8.

    Opened in LR 5 with no additional work besides cropping and taken to PS to add text

    test-P6200038.

    test-P6200064.

    these are the originals.

    p1831208599-4.

    p1711675273-5.

    Sharpness and color rendition good enough for street work for me. Better dynamic range than my D700 and infinitely easier to carry for a day.
     
  2. jnewell

    jnewell Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 23, 2011
    Boston, MA
    Definitely agree...

    I have never (surprisingly, now that I think about it) done comparative pixel-peeping...I read that and thought "really?" I should try setting up an A/B with the D700 and the EM-5 and equivalent lenses.

    Even if m4/3 IQ isn't quite up to DSLR FX IQ in all ways under all circumstances, it is sooooo good that your point there becomes so important - at least for me. It's almost to the point of being compelling.

    :2thumbs:
     
  3. the_traveler

    the_traveler Mu-43 Veteran

    204
    Sep 12, 2011
    Columbia, MD
    Lew Lorton
    Thanks.

    There are two extremes I just don't understand. Those who go nuts about lenses and sensors and tripods, etc and who never seem to take pictures that are interesting more than technical exercises and those people at the other end who sacrifice quality totally for convenience by using a 12-400 zoom lens that cost $14

    I want enough quality to do exactly what I want without the lack of IQ getting in the way and I'm willing to balance some tiny loss of IQ for the ease of carrying the stuff around.

    I had an eye-opening experience in about 2008 when I bought a D700, a 24-70 and a 70-200 and compared those pictures to what I had been getting with a D200 and 18-200.

    So, after my last trip when I schlepped two bodies, three lenses + stuff around all day, I knew I had to make another move and I would rather give up photography than give up the sparkling look at 100% crop one gets with good glass on a decent sensor.

    After I took an EP 3 and a 20 1.7 as a walk-around on a trip to Italy, the clearness of the images and the surprising dynamic range, specifically how the highlights held made me think of the OMD.

    Since virtually all of my photography is in uncontrolled, usually crappy, light, I had become used to overexposing a bit to get the eye shadows exposed and then pulling down the highlights in PPing. It was stunning to see that with the OMD, the exposures seems better, more controlled with less needed PPing.

    My intent now is to get another OMD body. After two outings I am convinced that one can shoot all day with an omd with 12-35 and another with 35-100 and never be disappointed.

    Since your first initial is J, I am confident to say, thanks Jim/John/Jonathan/ Jacob/Jason/Jean/Jeff/Jeremiah for reading and taking the time to comment.

    I see you are from Boston. I grew up in Framingham, went to Brandeis and love New England.
     
  4. dond

    dond New to Mu-43

    5
    Feb 20, 2013
    Lew,

    Good to see you in this forum - I see you have been here a while but I hadn't seen any posts. I followed your comments in Nikongear over the past couple of years.

    I too have jumped in 100%, infact just bundled off my last Nikon D3 body today to a ebayer who bought it for a lot more than I expected. The OMD/35-100/7-14/12-35 are all I need for now and trips to Asia are a lot lighter to boot!

    I like your work, good to see you here.
     
  5. the_traveler

    the_traveler Mu-43 Veteran

    204
    Sep 12, 2011
    Columbia, MD
    Lew Lorton
    THanks for the hello, but unfortunately this forum is too big on kvelling over equipment, non judgmental comments and joint exhibitions so, after I realized that, I post images mostly other places.

    Just getting a list together of my last Nikon stuff to sell.

    Lew
     
  6. jnewell

    jnewell Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 23, 2011
    Boston, MA
    Lew -

    The D200 was a darned fine camera. Ooops...IS a darned fine camera.

    I am using one EM-5 and one G5 because in spite of the crosstalk in my head resulting from two very different human/camera interfaces I find sometimes one is better suited for a given task than the other, though I generally much prefer the EM-5.

    I think your comment about a two camera, two lens system is very much on target...so much so that I have been wondering if the OM-D is in the "last camera" category that Thom Hogan was musing about a while back.

    Very nice blog on your website - lots of good food for thought. :2thumbs:

    Best
    John
     
  7. tdekany

    tdekany Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 8, 2011
    Oregon
    2 questions - where do you normally post? Were these 2 shots hand held?

    Looked at your site, excellent shots!:2thumbs:
     
  8. caimi

    caimi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2012
    middle US
    Caimi caimiphotography.com
    Lew,

    Your view of the forum notwithstanding, I think most of us would still like to see your images posted here. If it helps I'll offer one catch-all judgemental comment of them in advance: They all look as though they were shot by a crusty New-Englander. How's that?

    caimi

    PS : The lenses look very sharp but they are battling the light in your images. I'd love to see some of your examples taken in better or controlled light.
     
  9. MAubrey

    MAubrey Photographer

    Jul 9, 2012
    Bellingham, WA
    Mike Aubrey
    +1

    The fact that your images aren't here (technically) contributes to the problem...the more pictures we post, the more discussion of images there are. But if we don't post images, what else is there to talk about other than gear?
     
  10. the_traveler

    the_traveler Mu-43 Veteran

    204
    Sep 12, 2011
    Columbia, MD
    Lew Lorton
    Thank you, John
    Since the m 4/3 format will improve and grow, I think, as the images get seen more in the usual forums and people realize that they might be giving up only a tiny bit of IQ for much lower weight and lower cost, then m4/3 is an inevitability.
    Thanks for the comment on the blog. I get anywhere from 3-500 reads per post but sadly few comments.


    Thanks re site.
    I never/rarely use a tripod or monopod although I own both.
    The few times I've used a tripod is for macro or macro style shots.
    I've only used the monopod to hold the camera way up in the air to get above crowds.

    Yes, I am a crusty New Englander - but that is the basis for my charm.



    I have to reboot this computer now to solve a network issue but will come back and address this issue.

    Lew
     
  11. the_traveler

    the_traveler Mu-43 Veteran

    204
    Sep 12, 2011
    Columbia, MD
    Lew Lorton
    This reply is the truth as I see it - a cranky, crusty New Englander

    There are several 'Rules of the Road' here that are discouraging to me – and a couple that I think are hindrances to the site.

    Not every post is available for c/c – this is actually the reverse of most sites and the superfluity of 'let's all share our pictures of ' means that a large proportion of pictures get sucked up in these threads and never get looked at critically.

    So I log on and see perhaps 2 or 3 new posts that don't have tens if not hundreds of replies. Then I have to look and see if the person is actually willing to hear critique and see if I have anything cogent to say about the picture. Slim pickings there.

    Failing that, there's the huge group threads. There's not much of an incentive for me to skip over pages of pictures I've seen to maybe make a comment that will get swallowed up because people are posting more pictures all the time. What's the advantage in that for those making comments or the poster who actually might have benefited from some comments on how he/she did?

    And what's the positive experience in seeing yet the 1001st picture taken with a certain lens, or of a certain thing?

    threads.

    This seems to be the site's intent, to have a genial, friendly community where people can post images without any concerns about getting criticism they don't want to hear.

    On the other hand, that means that people can continually post pictures that may not really be any good and not progress as photographers just because they aren't getting any real response. They may not even realize that their pictures aren't great.

    In a circumstance where few pictures are being posted for c/c, then it would take an unusually brave newbie to actually start thread and post images for c/c. I don't remember many, if any, posts here saying' I'm new, what do you think?'

    And of course, every picture posted will get positive comments – no matter how it might be.

    The issue that really astounds me is that on a fairly high proportion of threads where an image or two is posted for comment, other people just jump in and post their own pictures. I think this kind of hijacking is incredibly rude and, for as many places as I've been, have never seen it practiced so routinely. This is essentially saying 'OK, look at me, look at me, here are my pictures to look at, to show you how well I've done, especially in comparison to your rather mediocre image.'

    What would interest me in posting here when I can post other places and get many more views and comments – and not have my posts get swallowed up amongst long threads of 'Let's Share all our Pictures of Beaches ' or some equally irrelevant grouping?

    As much as I really like some of the people I've met here (and the one or two I know from other places), I'm not necessarily interested in just being somewhere to be among photographers who shoot the same equipment. (Why not a site for only people who use OpTek neck straps?)
    As far as I am concerned, equipment is mostly irrelevant once you get it working the way you want.

    What I do want is to be in a community among people who want to be better photographers, who are trying really hard to do that - and a site that sees that as a worthwhile goal.

    I realize that this thread might make me persona non grata but it is an honest response to a prior question.
     
  12. caimi

    caimi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2012
    middle US
    Caimi caimiphotography.com
    An honest appraisal of the forum is always appeciated. And, if I haven't said it before, an honest appraisal/criticism of any of my photos is always appreciated and often times agreed with.

    I agree with Lew's criticism of the group threads. I don't understand their purpose but I think it is to have a single place to compare the efforts of many photographers on a single theme but, again agreeing with Lew, it is difficult to offer criticism or to learn from them when they get beyond a couple of pages because the criticism risks being lost. As a result they become a figurative circle jerk.

    I also would like a forum that has the goal of education through honest, considered criticism that produces better photographers but here's where I think it is nearly impossible: we don't know one another. The internet has often been criticised as a magnet for meanness because of the inherent anonymity of its participants. And you would think that anonymity would work to the advantage of the goal of criticism to produce better photographers. But you don't have to look much further than DPREVIEW.COM to learn that anonymity among photographers in a large group produces either mean spirited exchanges or zero exchanges. The photo forums over there are full of great images that go ignored. The gear forums are mine field of ugly comments just waiting for the next unsuspecting visitor.

    But here we are, also a group of anonymous photographers, who do not want to become DPREVIEW Junior. So what do we get? The Dedicated B&W Thread not to be confused with the B&W Forum in which it is embedded. I've seen some good, some very good, some stunning and some crappy photos in the Dedicated B&W Thread but I don't know any of you well enough to place you in the last category and I suspect most here feel the same way. The benefit of the education does not outweigh the risk that the site will degenerate into the DPReview form factor.

    So, Lew, I like your photography very much and would like to see more of it. Don't be afraid of adulation. Since it abounds here, you'll probably have to endure much of it.
     
  13. the_traveler

    the_traveler Mu-43 Veteran

    204
    Sep 12, 2011
    Columbia, MD
    Lew Lorton
    What keeps a site from degenerating is a single rule about behavior - other members, their pictures and their subjects must be treated with respect - that gets enforced.

    The cadre of long term members needs to show examples and any mods need to respond to request for enforcement.

    That works well at at least three other sites I'm aware of. Yes there might be a bit more boisterousness than you're currently used to but it does work.
     
  14. Savas K

    Savas K Mu-43 Top Veteran

    784
    Jan 10, 2013
    The topic of criticism got a good going over here, some seven pages worth, and ultimately went nowhere: https://www.mu-43.com/f35/criticism-46062/

    Lew's back in the native lens area in order to ostensibly discuss gear, along with a chip on his sig's shoulder saying, "Comments/Critique are welcome on any shot of mine." (any is underlined).

    With no provocation and in order to instigate the same discussion here as in the former thread, he bellows, "Thanks for the hello, but unfortunately this forum is too big on kvelling over equipment, non judgmental comments and joint exhibitions so, after I realized that, I post images mostly other places."
     
  15. entropicremnants

    entropicremnants Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jul 16, 2012
    John Griggs
    AMEN!!!

    I've found by using slightly older bodies I can get my images and use the leftover money for better lenses. Works for me.
     
  16. MAubrey

    MAubrey Photographer

    Jul 9, 2012
    Bellingham, WA
    Mike Aubrey
    Now that's a perfectly delivered underhanded insult. You get a gold star.

    There's a third hand here two (poor deformed little guy...). The people giving the criticism might not realize that their criticism completely stinks and the person who posted the picture would do well to just completely ignore it.

    Stupid negative comments are generally worse than stupid positive ones. I'm, personally, not at all interested in criticism for the majority of people here. Some of them, certainly, but that's only a handful. If I could find a photo forum that was 95% populated by NatGeo photographers...then I might be interested in receiving criticism and critique from an online forum.

    And on the flip side, I certainly do not view myself as qualified to provide that level of criticism to others either. I know what I like and what I don't. Can I articulate that? Sometimes, but not often enough that I'd be confident to give *helpful* criticism to a stranger on the internet.

    Then there's a third issue: the ability to make a good photograph doesn't translate into the ability to describe what makes a good photograph. As an example from my own profession...being able to write well and being able to explain grammatical structure are two completely different skills that are constantly conflated. E. B. White, the author of Charlotte's Web was a brilliant writer. But he was a terrible grammar teacher and his revision of Strunk's Elements of Style has done more to damage the teaching of English grammar in North American than any other book (as argument by one of the world's leading authority of English grammar, Geoffrey Pullum, in an article in the Chronicle for Higher Education).

    Don't you think it's more than a little unfair to assume (or at least imply) that the people here *don't* want to be better photographers? You assume people don't actually want criticism, but I'd suggest the reality is less about people's comfort receiving criticism and more about people's comfort in their own ability to give it out.
     
  17. the_traveler

    the_traveler Mu-43 Veteran

    204
    Sep 12, 2011
    Columbia, MD
    Lew Lorton
    Savas, I was responding to this 'invitation' to post pictures here.

    It is my belief that organizing one's thoughts to give critique, which need not be negative, is a terrific way to learn. So looking at images, trying to figure out what one likes or doesn't then becomes knowledge of what makes a good picture and then will become useful.

    Learning to hear what people think, even negative things, is a part of growing either as a photographer or an adult.

    My definition of this site's goal comes from an interaction with the admin.
    Your comfort with the way the site works is exactly what makes it not useful for me.

    From your response, I assume that critique and criticism is unwelcome.
     
  18. Nordiquefan

    Nordiquefan Mu-43 Regular

    77
    Mar 12, 2013
    Please tell me what is wrong with like-minded people from around the globe that share a common interest gathering in a forum to have fun and discuss said interest. There are plenty of forums on the web that would be more than willing to tell you how wrong you are or how badly you screwed up with your interpretation of a photo of a particular object. I'm quite certain with your insistence on the need for there to be criticism of every photo posted that you would be one of the people sharing your thoughts on how someone should have done something instead of just enjoying their artistic vision and their company.

    I do not post much here because I'm a little shy and I'm constantly concerned about getting into an argument with the nice people that frequent this forum. I do however read a lot here and have learned a great deal from many of the fine people here.

    I for one am glad you've decided not to post here much. I will continue to read about and learn from interesting and pleasant people from around the globe without fear of being told how awful I am if I can ever summon up the courage to share an image or two.

    Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Mu-43 mobile app
     
  19. the_traveler

    the_traveler Mu-43 Veteran

    204
    Sep 12, 2011
    Columbia, MD
    Lew Lorton
    As you can see by your own response, this is not a place where people want so much to hear what they don't want to hear.

    I didn't say that it was wrong, I said that it wouldn't work for me for those reasons and why I wouldn't post here any more.

    You and Maubrey and Savas, rather than pointing out where my views of how this place works are incorrect, choose to make slurs on my behavior that you have no way of evaluating. This is an unfortunate reinforcement of my prior impressions.
     
  20. Nordiquefan

    Nordiquefan Mu-43 Regular

    77
    Mar 12, 2013
    I would still like an answer to my initial query.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Mu-43 mobile app