Featured: 'My portrait work with m43: can it hang with the big boys?' by spatulaboy

[peterpix]

A nice shot of the little kid, but its more like a picture than a portrait.I's sure the parents like it. I like the other work and don't think the person has to fill the frame. Keep it up, Vin!

 

[kevinparis]

thanks peterpix... as I have already explained... I posted my pics not as examples of fine photography, but purely as a reference to what I had got out of the same lenses.. I was genuinely surprised with the images Vin got from those lenses.. and as I said I do have to work harder

Vins work is superb and a massive signpost to what is capable with the cameras and lenses we currently have in our possession, or are available today with a suitably compliant partner/credit card/shotgun and ski mask at a liquor store

cheers

K

 

[kevinparis]

hmm. The girl with the tat could have made a great portrait if she would move her right foot toward camera lean on left foot, left elbow separation, right shoulder forward and a touch down, one eye directly at camera. Could make it a high impact shot. ANYONE ELSE, I'm in a critical mood! Anyone want to talk about the value of critical analysis? Works best when we can all discuss our ideas! Weeee. And yes, I may be posting in the "what are you drinking right now" thread later... fireball. Ahh yeah.

just jim.... this was a 'street' shot as was this about 10 minutes before... 75mm from the hip.... we all work in mysterious ways

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

PC020210 by kevinparis, on Flickr


peace

K

 

[Just Jim]

just jim.... this was a 'street' shot as was this about 10 minutes before... 75mm from the hip.... we all work in mysterious ways

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

PC020210 by kevinparis, on Flickr


peace

K

OMG... I love new England, we all keep our shirts on once we hit 10 years old. That.. just.. omg. But you got that look right there.. but.. those. umm... you know. are huge.

His name, is Robert Paulson.

 

[orfeo]

If I may make a criticism, I think you focus too much at making bokeh the main subject of your portraits in my humble opinion. This is only by seeing the samples here, and I think those kind of protrait are too generic and lifeless.
You would benefit at using more scenics, even props why not. The idea I believe is to break the boredom and to introduce a twist. Be it make up, lightning, history, building, anything that would tell something. Pure bokeh is plain boring, and for stage portrait I think you need to tell a story.

 

[tomO2013]

Hi Vincent,

Your portraits are stunning. Simply stunning by any measure.
Are these models personal friends of yours - the compositions have a very relaxed and fun feel to them. I love , LOVE your use of color and the natural contrast you get from your images, choice of location and lighting. There is something about the way that the Minolta MD renders... wow. Have you considered/tried the MC variant, I'm told it's slightly softer but has gorgeous out of focus rendering and is also cheap as chips to pick up these days.

One thing that I feel is worth mentioning is that you conduct yourself like true professional gentleman here always. When you get 'constructive' (in some cases) criticism in this thread that many others would take personally - you never react badly. Also I'd like to say that both yourself and LivingLoud are always extremely generous with your knowledge and experience - it's never kept secret how you accomplished a certain shot / processed a particular shot and I feel that is the mark of a really great artists - they want others to succeed as well. So thank you

Regarding your question - 'can it hang with the big boys?' - yes sir, your work could most certainly can hang right along side 35mm 5d's, d800's etc... and then the 120mm full frame big boys in my book

Please keep shooting and sharing,

Tom.

 

[spatulaboy]

If I may make a criticism, I think you focus too much at making bokeh the main subject of your portraits in my humble opinion. This is only by seeing the samples here, and I think those kind of protrait are too generic and lifeless.
You would benefit at using more scenics, even props why not. The idea I believe is to break the boredom and to introduce a twist. Be it make up, lightning, history, building, anything that would tell something. Pure bokeh is plain boring, and for stage portrait I think you need to tell a story.

Thank you for your opinion and I actually agree with you. Like I said earlier I do get into a comfort zone and it's hard to break habits, we all do it. I do want to make a few points though.
1. I think I wanted to emphasize the depth of field capable with m4/3 a little too much, so I chose a lot of samples to illustrate that. But in honest that is a prevalent look in my portraits I'm not going to lie.
2. It is not the first time I've been asked to bring more of a story into my work. This is one area I would like to work on. I don't do editorial shoots but I agree it will bring another dimension into my portraits, so that's one area I want to work on.

thanks peterpix... as I have already explained... I posted my pics not as examples of fine photography, but purely as a reference to what I had got out of the same lenses.. I was genuinely surprised with the images Vin got from those lenses.. and as I said I do have to work harder

Vins work is superb and a massive signpost to what is capable with the cameras and lenses we currently have in our possession, or are available today with a suitably compliant partner/credit card/shotgun and ski mask at a liquor store

cheers

K

Kevin I didn't get to comment on your posts earlier. But from what I've seen you tend to do more intimate and candid style portraiture. My shoots are in relatively controlled conditions. I get to pick the location and background and direct the subject to get the image I want. That's a very different style of shooting so it might not be a fair comparison. Like Joe said earlier I've managed to find the 'sweet spots' for my style of shooting for consistent results.

Hi Vincent,

Your portraits are stunning. Simply stunning by any measure.
Are these models personal friends of yours - the compositions have a very relaxed and fun feel to them. I love , LOVE your use of color and the natural contrast you get from your images, choice of location and lighting. There is something about the way that the Minolta MD renders... wow. Have you considered/tried the MC variant, I'm told it's slightly softer but has gorgeous out of focus rendering and is also cheap as chips to pick up these days.

One thing that I feel is worth mentioning is that you conduct yourself like true professional gentleman here always. When you get 'constructive' (in some cases) criticism in this thread that many others would take personally - you never react badly. Also I'd like to say that both yourself and LivingLoud are always extremely generous with your knowledge and experience - it's never kept secret how you accomplished a certain shot / processed a particular shot and I feel that is the mark of a really great artists - they want others to succeed as well. So thank you

Regarding your question - 'can it hang with the big boys?' - yes sir, your work could most certainly can hang right along side 35mm 5d's, d800's etc... and then the 120mm full frame big boys in my book

Please keep shooting and sharing,

Tom.

Thank you Tom! About my subjects. Some are friends, some are models I work with, and some are paid clients. I am very engaging with my subjects during a shoot so they feel pretty comfortable throughout and it does make a difference. I am definitely not the type of photographer that quietly stands at a distance clicking away at the model. Thanks for noticing!

About the Minolta, yes I absolutely love my MD, I have a MC Rokkor 58mm f1.4 and a MD Rokkor 50mm f1.7 as well. I hardly use those even though the 58 is actually quite a good lens. I just love using the MD 50 so much. It has silky smooth focus, and I really like the rendering it gives me. I had forgotten to label what lenses I used for a lot of these pics but quite a bit of them are with the Minolta.

Thank you I really like the friendliness of this forum so I try to conduct myself accordingly. Also I did ask for criticism so I wouldn't ask if I wasn't able to handle it. lol. I do try to explain myself the best I can whenever someone brings something up about my work.

You guys are super generous with the compliments, thank you all!

 

[F/Stop]

You know Vin, people are so quick to judge and criticize, be it jealousy or simple-minded huge ego'd individuals. More often than not i have the feeling that most of them have never accomplished half of what they are criticizing. And it drives me nuts

People tend to worry about the technicalities of an image rather than that of what the image is all about. Was the image meant to have the color it does? Why is it not tack sharp? Why are there blown highlights? The people need to take a step back and think about the creativity, the composition & the subject and less about the soft corners or blown highlights and focus on what the artist/photographer wanted the end result of the image to be like. Personally I love film/slide emulation, hi-key portraits and black and white. There is nothing wrong with being non-conforming or being outside the normal. dont be afraid to dive outside of the normal realm.

People need to actually get out and shoot, critique themselves, learn and set standards for themselves rather than sit behind a computer screen and nit-pick everyones images like "oh its not sharp on the edges" or "why are the colors not accurate" Chances are, that person has never even posted an image they took because of #1: They simply cant match what they are criticizing so they are jealous therefore type away at every little fault they can come up with just to make themselves feel better and/or #2: they are too busy reading and worry about what the interwebz say about "equivalencies" DOF and Dynamic Range, and that m4/3 can never become a solid system or what-not.

A lot of people use m4/3 for their personal use and we never really get to see the full capability of the system. More often than not we get to see into peoples lives with images they created with a m4/3 camera of their families and travels but in the end, the images are typically of the point n shoot'ish type. Now, Don't get me wrong there are plenty of people on this forum who make great images!

Vin, you know what I think about your work and you know i frequent your flickr account. It is fantastic that you made this post to show the world and the users here on this site what m4/3 is capable of in the right hands , with the right lenses.

I cant tell you how many times people are surprised when i tell that what camera i use better yet,"its so small ,it took these?
I bet you hands down that if you asked people what camera took those pictures they would never guess micro 4/3. I really hope your post influences many people to get off the internet and stop reading so much into all the "numbers" and actually get out there and try for themselves and push the limits of m4/3, they might just be surprised at the results......

On a side note, Vin, I visit SC quite often ,maybe one day we will meet up.

 

[Everhandy]

Yah know, here's the thing. If you put your work out for approval, you have to take some lumps. Everybody is a critic and rightly so.
I think Vin's work is very good, I wouldn't call it superb. I mentioned a few things that I thought may need improvement as did a couple of other people, the over-use of Bokeh for example.
In my opinion, I would value honest constructive criticism much more than overly generous accolades, deserved or not. This is the sign of a true "artist" as you are.

I would love to do more portraits, I just can't seem to find any good looking people to shoot!

Here's a quick example of some of the portrait work I have started to do. Of course, I don't have the luxury of set up but, I am meeting new interesting people (and helping them out by the way).

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

It's very important to understand, in my opinion, that each and every single picture you take have a a story to it. Sharing an image is a form of communication.

 

[Y2K]

Yah know, here's the thing. If you put your work out for approval, you have to take some lumps. Everybody is a critic and rightly so.
I think Vin's work is very good, I wouldn't call it superb.

Since you stated yourself that if you put your work up you have to take some lumps... I hope you don't mind me saying... but after pointing out that you wouldn't call his work superb, what exactly are you trying to show by posting your picture? I am trying really hard to see a story or creativity or some technical execution or composition rules... or anything really that I like about it, but I must be really missing it. I can tell you one thing (and please don't get offended) I wouldn't glance twice on the image above; but OPs portraits are simply a pleasure to look at. I can guarantee that they would have a similar effect if he would not have only good looking people in his work. Now, if we put a knock-out model in your shot above, it would still be simply a snap shot and I would probably not look at it twice either (well, maybe if she would be nude or something ).

Again, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to pick a fight here... but I am completely missing the point that you are trying to make by the posted image above (and the girl shot you posted previously by the way). So maybe you could explain what aspects of this image you find interesting from either technical, composition, or execution stand point?

 

[Jay86]

Yah know, here's the thing. If you put your work out for approval, you have to take some lumps. Everybody is a critic and rightly so.
I think Vin's work is very good, I wouldn't call it superb. I mentioned a few things that I thought may need improvement as did a couple of other people, the over-use of Bokeh for example.
In my opinion, I would value honest constructive criticism much more than overly generous accolades, deserved or not. This is the sign of a true "artist" as you are.

I would love to do more portraits, I just can't seem to find any good looking people to shoot!

Here's a quick example of some of the portrait work I have started to do. Of course, I don't have the luxury of set up but, I am meeting new interesting people (and helping them out by the way).


It's very important to understand, in my opinion, that each and every single picture you take have a a story to it. Sharing an image is a form of communication.

Since you stated yourself that if you put your work up you have to take some lumps... I hope you don't mind me saying... but after pointing out that you wouldn't call his work superb, what exactly are you trying to show by posting your picture? I am trying really hard to see a story or creativity or some technical execution or composition rules... or anything really that I like about it, but I must be really missing it. I can tell you one thing (and please don't get offended) I wouldn't glance twice on the image above; but OPs portraits are simply a pleasure to look at. I can guarantee that they would have a similar effect if he would not have only good looking people in his work. Now, if we put a knock-out model in your shot above, it would still be simply a snap shot and I would probably not look at it twice either (well, maybe if she would be nude or something ).

Again, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to pick a fight here... but I am completely missing the point that you are trying to make by the posted image above (and the girl shot you posted previously by the way). So maybe you could explain what aspects of this image you find interesting from either technical, composition, or execution stand point?

Agreed 100% Y2K. @ EverHandy you dished some out but you couldn't take it in return. And then you made it a point about being able to take critique if you post your images too. Take a good look at how you handled the critique on your image of the little kid earlier..... Defensive x 100.

OP's work is pretty compelling stuff, keep at it spatulaboy.

 

[Just Jim]

Funny thing about criticism. You do not have to put up or shut up. I've seen plenty of situations in all fields where the teacher can be gifted as a teacher, however be lacking in actual practice.

That said once something has been up, be ready for potentially bruised ego's. Just try to take it constructively. Avoid cherry picking won't you don't want to hear, and don't get to inflated by a less than constructive hugfest. Neither too negative or too positive without substance reviews have any real value towards progress, and are best avoided.

I've yet to see perfection, and I know I never will, but it doesn't stop me from trying or looking. Just some advice as to where this thread is heading. Keep it constructive.

 

[Everhandy]

Since you stated yourself that if you put your work up you have to take some lumps... I hope you don't mind me saying... but after pointing out that you wouldn't call his work superb, what exactly are you trying to show by posting your picture? I am trying really hard to see a story or creativity or some technical execution or composition rules... or anything really that I like about it, but I must be really missing it. I can tell you one thing (and please don't get offended) I wouldn't glance twice on the image above; but OPs portraits are simply a pleasure to look at. I can guarantee that they would have a similar effect if he would not have only good looking people in his work. Now, if we put a knock-out model in your shot above, it would still be simply a snap shot and I would probably not look at it twice either (well, maybe if she would be nude or something ).

Again, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to pick a fight here... but I am completely missing the point that you are trying to make by the posted image above (and the girl shot you posted previously by the way). So maybe you could explain what aspects of this image you find interesting from either technical, composition, or execution stand point?

You may glance twice if you were interested in the human condition. Can you not see the look of despair in the people's faces? People that have so little, they have to share a cigarette on a street corner. That's the story and you missed it completely because you're too busy looking for "technical qualities". This is why I posted the picture. To prove the point I have been contemplating recently since being on this forum and others; enthusiasts are wanna-be pros that shower each other with insincere praise for mediocre work and in the end miss the big picture. This is why smartphones (a media I am exploring now) are kicking enthusiast cameras in the rear in sales. Few people care about technical quality anymore, that's passe. I mentioned it because the OP put his work out as a challenge to "the big boys". I'm not a big boy but, I know big boy work when I see it. In my opinion, kevinparis's shot of the boy was a better example of "big boy" work but, that's my opinion.

My shots go on Facebook and Instagram primarily. This is the reality of modern photography anymore. When I post something creative, I get a few likes. When I post some shots of a friend drinking a beer or sitting on a toilet or something (as an example) I get dozens of likes. People want to see reality. They want a story, especially of someone they know. The don't care about Bokeh. Like it or not and what you or anyone else believes does not mean it's true. To prove my point (like I have to), just look at the latest releases from Canon, the Canon N and the N100 which are designed for social networking.

BTW, defending my work is not being "defensive". You didn't call Vin defensive when he explained his compositions (which I do like).

 

[noohoggin1]

Whatever happened to basic manners of "Don't give a critique unless it's asked for?"

 

[Luckypenguin]

You may glance twice if you were interested in the human condition. Can you not see the look of despair in the people's faces? People that have so little, they have to share a cigarette on a street corner. That's the story and you missed it completely because you're too busy looking for "technical qualities". This is why I posted the picture. To prove the point I have been contemplating recently since being on this forum and others; enthusiasts are wanna-be pros that shower each other with insincere praise for mediocre work and in the end miss the big picture.

Pictures might tell a thousand words, but if you asked a thousand people to write those words down you'd get a thousand different answers. Try to imagine looking at your pictures through the eyes of someone who wasn't there and doesn't know the backstory. Maybe you might want to start your own thread if you want to discuss this sort of thing since this little side argument is just getting further and further away from the original intent of this thread.

 

[metalmania]

Pictures might tell a thousand words, but if you asked a thousand people to write those words down you'd get a thousand different answers. Try to imagine looking at your pictures through the eyes of someone who wasn't there and doesn't know the backstory. Maybe you might want to start your own thread if you want to discuss this sort of thing since this little side argument is just getting further and further away from the original intent of this thread.

Can't agree more.

 

[Dramaturg]

You may glance twice if you were interested in the human condition.

No offence, but it seems that you are talking about different genre here. Your shot is more akin to a street photography, than portraiture. There are plenty of very fine photographers who have a good skill of capturing a story. See some samples by Matt Stuart (http://www.mattstuart.com/photographs/colour). Or see how Sergey Maximishin, a Russian street photographer, captures those emotional moments ...

(Only a link to his web site) - http://www.maximishin.com/gallery.php?cat_id=8&action=images&lng=

But Vinc is dealing more with aesthetic portraiture. I agree, that adding some story to his work would be a plus. But nevertheless even without it his works fit into a portraiture genre very well.

For example, another photographer from Kyiv, Ukraine (Oleg Oprisco) is specializing on a surreal portraiture where he works a lot on the story for his shots. He literaly spends hours preparing the scene and the model and only a few minutes for shooting. These are some of his works:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/oprisco/

You can google much more of his works. I know Oleg Oprisco and really appreciate what he is doing as he pays so much effort into creating the story (or even a whole world!) for each of his shot (though all of his works have a surreal context). I do believe all our portrait work would benefit from some sort of creativity as well. However, again, what you are talking about is not really a portraiture. It's more of a street photography.

 

[Y2K]

You may glance twice if you were interested in the human condition. Can you not see the look of despair in the people's faces? People that have so little, they have to share a cigarette on a street corner. That's the story and you missed it completely because you're too busy looking for "technical qualities". This is why I posted the picture. To prove the point I have been contemplating recently since being on this forum and others; enthusiasts are wanna-be pros that shower each other with insincere praise for mediocre work and in the end miss the big picture. This is why smartphones (a media I am exploring now) are kicking enthusiast cameras in the rear in sales. Few people care about technical quality anymore, that's passe. I mentioned it because the OP put his work out as a challenge to "the big boys". I'm not a big boy but, I know big boy work when I see it. In my opinion, kevinparis's shot of the boy was a better example of "big boy" work but, that's my opinion.

My shots go on Facebook and Instagram primarily. This is the reality of modern photography anymore. When I post something creative, I get a few likes. When I post some shots of a friend drinking a beer or sitting on a toilet or something (as an example) I get dozens of likes. People want to see reality. They want a story, especially of someone they know. The don't care about Bokeh. Like it or not and what you or anyone else believes does not mean it's true. To prove my point (like I have to), just look at the latest releases from Canon, the Canon N and the N100 which are designed for social networking.

BTW, defending my work is not being "defensive". You didn't call Vin defensive when he explained his compositions (which I do like).

James, thanks for explaining what you are trying to convey. I can see what is important to you. There is nothing wrong with capturing reality and everyday life. I applaud you for your interest in documenting it. With that said, I am still not clear what does it have to do with Vin's original post and portraits? As the title suggests, his whole point was that in the right hands m4/3 equipment can absolutely compete with Canon / Nikon professional gear and he illustrated each point with beatifully executed work, which many people admire. One can clearly see his artistic vision, his experience, and (in my opinion) pretty much flawless execution in his work for this type of photography. You clearly have different priorities and I am not sure how it applies to this thread.

To address your other points: Saying that shots of your friends drinking beer or sitting on the toilet you would get dozens of likes because people want reality comparing to professionally executed portraits. Seriously? It is like saying that a porn picture will get more "likes" from more people than a Picasso painting. Sure... but one of them costs millions of dollars because it is a work of art and the other one will forever be forgotten even though it is reality. Smartphones are kicking enthusiast camera in the rear because few people care about technical quality anymore? Not really. It is quite the opposite actually, it is happening because modern cell phones have cameras built in that caught up in quality with yesteryear's point-and-shoots and since everyone has smartphones these days and they are always connected to the net, the quantity (not quality) of pictures taken with a smartphone obviously surpass the number of pictures taken with dedicated photo hardware. It is also completely different from doing professional work. But even a phone camera in the right hands can produce exceptional results that would no doubt stand out.

Getting back to your shot. I am interested in the human condition. But I missed your story because you did not convey it in your shot. I see people, I see the cigarette, but I also see a lot of things that distract my eye from that story. Keep in mind that your audience was not there with you when you took this shot so the only information available to us is in that picture. I also see some house on the background, some posters on the background with some phone number... maybe if you would blur the background a bit (a little bookeh ) it would help my eye to not get distracted and study your subjects more carefully. Here is a great example of a shot that has a similar idea to yours (it depicts real life and struggle) but it is also perfectly executed (credit goes to m43happy as this is his image in The Real Street Thread II thread):


There is no question here on who the subject is and what the author is trying to show. I didn't glance at this image, I stared at this image for a few minutes and it created all kids of feelings in my head. It still touches me every time I look at it. There are many other examples in that thread that are closer to your genre and there are no model portraits there but they are very well executed technically (as well as many mediocre once and you can see the clear difference). On your picture, I honestly had no idea what is going on there, what is the point, what am I looking at, or why it was even posted here.

Anyways, this is way off topic at this point so my apologies for continuing in that direction... I'll stop now.

Cheers.

 

[Amin]

Whatever happened to basic manners of "Don't give a critique unless it's asked for?"

This has been the general culture on this site since its inception. Not all sites are this way, but ours has been.

When I do see unsolicited criticism, I am often reminded of this brilliant bit of satire at TOP: http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

 

[ean10775]

This has been the general culture on this site since its inception. Not all sites are this way, but ours has been.

When I do see unsolicited criticism, I am often reminded of this brilliant bit of satire at TOP: http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

I hadn't seen that - fantastic!