Extolling the virtues of Sony & Fuji on this forum - is it appropriate?

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by goldenlight, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    The question recently arose in another thread as to whether it was appropriate to discuss other makes of cameras and their advantages over Micro Four Thirds, on a Micro Four Thirds forum. This type of issue will always risk straying into dangerous territory, with the potential for some bitter and acrimonious exchanges. Also, it begs the question, is it relevant?

    Starting with the second question, “Is it relevant?” on first consideration the answer is “No!” People come on this forum because they use Micro Four Thirds equipment, or at least have an interest in it; they want to join in MFT related discussions, find out about new equipment, learn from more experienced users how to get the best from their cameras and see stunning pictures taken on MFT.

    However, upon thinking a little deeper maybe there are positive reasons to compare MFT to other formats. No system can evolve in isolation; to survive it must remain competitive to the alternatives. If better or more attractive options exist, to ignore them is like an ostrich burying its head in the sand (do they really do that?)

    I suppose the reasoning for such denial is that drawing attention to superiority that exists elsewhere might channel potential new MFT users in that direction and encourage existing users to migrate. I wonder why we develop such loyalty to our chosen brand? Surely a situation of falling market share would be an issue for Olympus or Panasonic to worry about? I can only guess that there is a fear that ownership of large amounts of gear might become a poor investment if the brand becomes uncompetitive, but surely trying to paper over the cracks of a system’s shortcomings is counter-productive?

    As things stand I do not see any reason for concern over either Olympus or Panasonic. Other manufacturers do some things better and alternative formats do have certain advantages, but the reverse is equally true. Sure, some of our contemporaries will chose to move on for reasons of individual preference, specific features not offered by Olympus or Panasonic that are available elsewhere, or simply because they wrongly assume that their mediocre pictures are the fault of their equipment and something perceived as “better” will offer an instant fix. However, brand migration is a two-way street and my impression is that at present there are rather more heading towards MFT than away from it.

    So regarding the original question, is the avocation of other systems and extolling their advantages on this forum appropriate, I say bring it on and let’s have a healthy, constructive and polite debate. I appreciate that for this to happen a level of maturity sadly lacking on many other forums would be required, but I think that here on Micro Four Thirds User we might just have the right mix of experience, tolerance, camaraderie, good humour and sensible moderation to make it possible. Prove me right!
     
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  2. Omni

    Omni Mu-43 Regular

    41
    Jul 21, 2012
    I haven't been on this forum for long but one of the main reasons why I keep coming back is that I haven't really seen anyone bash any other format or manufacture. In fact this forum feels like a bunch of photographers who enjoy micro 4/3 along with every other camera.

    This forum feels like a group of photographers hanging out at a bar just chit chatting. No one really saying anything is better or worse.
     
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  3. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    Personally, I am more interested in photography concepts, gear I can use (like new m43 lenses) and how to use my m43 better. I am less interested in the fact that someone is really excited over NEX.

    To me, there is big difference between:

    'Hey, the XE1 just launched and it looks interesting"

    from

    "Hey, I just discovered NEX (a system that's been out for 2+ years) and I want to post a bunch of pics about why I think it's so cool, and why I'm leaving m43" (this is NOT referencing Kevin's posts, btw. His posts have been different).

    I find the latter uninformative, because I can go to talknex (which I do) to learn about NEX. I think also these kinds of posts can cause stomach-churning indecision for folks who are just getting into the system. I know for me, I spent the first year of NEX's life flipping back and forth, spending more time on gear than skill, and honestly wasting my time.

    I find the idea that "I'd rather focus on pictures instead of gear" actually disrupted by evangelical posting of other gear ("OMG! Look at this awesome NEX shot with shallow DOF"). These excitable NEX postsings actually make you focus on gear churn and GAS instead of working on how to shoot with what you have, and illicit long, repetitive postings on the strengths and weaknesses of NEX vs. m43. Heck, we might as well just have a sticky with the points at the top of the this or that forum, and end these postings! (IMO)
     
  4. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    Since I'm the guilt party let me start it off. When I posted that I did not mean it to be anything other than a quick note to let people know that I was going to try a little experiment of going all manual for a few weeks. I consider many of this forum to be my friends and I wanted to share what I was doing.

    As to the larger question...

    I do not believe gear is not the main reason we are all here, it may be the flag under which we are all standing but we are all bond together by our love of photography. Gear is just stuff. It's equipment to make to make images. To me the important part is the making images. I've had a number of different cameras of different formats and brands over the years and each has had its strengths and weaknesses. Right now the GX1 and NEX coexist happily in the cupboard because the suit my needs at this time and they each do something that the other does not. I am not particularly brand loyal. I tend to go with whatever suits my needs because in the end it doesn't matter what camera or lens I used to create an image (or what software or computer I used for that matter). IMHO the image is all that matters.

    I think this is a great community and to be perfectly honest it is the connections here that keep me as attached to m43 as I am. It's a wonderful benefit and Olympus and Panasonic should mention it in their literature. :eek:
     
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  5. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    Dixeyk, I don't think you're the guilty party here at all. It's not like it's a new issue. It's been around as long as I've been on this forum. If anything, it's lighten up remarkably in the last few months. A year or two ago, just saying the word "NEX" would have lead to responses questioning why a NEX user is even on this forum.

    I personnally don't see what the problem is. The latest thread was clearly titled. If someone is not interest in other cameras, simply don't click on the thread. It's not like it's mandatory that every thread has to be read.
     
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  6. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    Couldn't have put it better myself! :bravo-009:
     
  7. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    They're all great cameras. I and many others have used these amongst a lot of other brands within our day, and loved many cameras within our days. I like to hear other people's experiences with other systems, and them having knowledge and experience with my system makes their experiences with other systems that much more relevant to me.
     
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  8. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    We're singing the same song, Ned! :smile:
     
  9. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    I like all the new mirrorless cameras coming out, but honestly as nice as they are, M43 is the most well-rounded, budget friendly mirrorless system on the market. In that regards, it can't be beat! :wink:
     
  10. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    There's a lot of truth in this and you highlight a trap that is easy to fall into. However, those who are prone to churning gear and changing systems will, by their nature, seek out the very threads that encourage this wherever they might be on the Internet. :smile:
     
  11. jloden

    jloden Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2012
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    Exactly!

    Is it appropriate to talk about other systems here? Absolutely! m4/3 doesn't exist in a vacuum, so there's nothing wrong with talking about other systems. While I've gone and invested heavily in m4/3 that doesn't mean I have zero interest in other ILC systems, and as Ned put it, hearing about another system from someone who has experience and knowledge in m4/3 makes it much more relevant to me.

    However... this is a m4/3 user forum. It's NOT appropriate to come in here and bash m4/3, start the 'equivalency' ranting, and so forth. It's fine to say "wow, coming from m4/3 I'm finding the Fuji's larger sensor advantage to be wonderful for X Y and Z uses" because that's useful, relevant, and informative. Comments like "LOL m4/3 has a tiny sensor and can't compete with Fuji" would not be, because it's none of those three things.

    On the flip side, some people are inherently defensive about their format. You're bound to get some people here pretty riled up if you sing the praises of another system, regardless. This being a Micro Four Thirds user forum, you should expect that it's not the best place to come to gush about how awesome another system is ad nauseum. That said, as adults on a discussion forum, I feel we should be able to bring up other systems here without animosity on both sides, as long as it's relevant to m4/3 users.
     
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  12. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    I just meant it was my thread. I think it's a wonderful time to be a photographer. There are lots of terrific options out there and I think right now it's really tough to find a bad one. Each offers something a bit different and choice is good. I think of how far things have come since the Apple QuickTake 100 (that dates me huh?) or my Olympus D500L (that cost me $700) and it's half megapixel sensor and I am amazed at what you get today.
     
  13. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    There is no such thing as a bad camera these days, mirrorless or otherwise. Different systems may score in different areas, but it is important to make purchasing decisions based on all aspects of the system, including future options, choice and price, not only in terms of camera bodies, but also lenses and accessories. In this resect M43 is indeed a well-rounded system. :smile:
     
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  14. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    I agree. If someone asks me what I recommend I often will point them to m43 because it offers a wonderful selection of lenses and bodies that can suit most anyone.
     
  15. phrenic

    phrenic Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 13, 2010
    Personally, I think it's useful to acknowledge that the format does not exist in a vacuum. And it certainly is relevant when Fuji and Sony for example, are definitely competitors occupying a similar space..now maybe comparisons for advantages and disadvantages to something like MF cameras or cellphones for example might be a little silly.
     
  16. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    Great analysis. I think it can be applied to this issue by each of us checking this list before posting in potentially controversial threads and asking ourselves if what we have to say is:-

    Relevant to Micro Four Thirds users

    Restrained by focusing on facts, not rhetoric, and remaining polite at all times

    Respectful of the feelings and opinions of other forum users.

    There, we have the Three R's :smile:

    Relevance to Micro Four Thirds users
     
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  17. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    Bashing is poor form. I myself find it very interesting when folks talk about their choices of other systems. I even like healthy debate when folks disagree about what they prefer and why. The keys is remember that our choices of gear do not define us and we can still be a community despite brand preference.
     
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  18. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    I own Olympus, Fuji, & NEX systems because IMHO, there is no "one system does it best"

    Being open minded to the strengths/weaknesses of all systems is just being realistic.

    That being said,
    On the NEX forum, it's not uncommon for me to ask prospective buyers if they're interested in native lenses. If the answer is yes, then I present Micro Four Thirds and Fuji as alternative options.
     
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  19. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Addendum:
    As Olympus gravitates to more & more Sony sensor use, IMHO there should NOT be any additional hate/dislike/friction but rather a more symbiotic relationship like that which currently exists between Sony, Nikon, & Pentax DSLR owners since many of the bodies share same the Sony sensor....:wink:
     
  20. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    I think discussions about other options beyond :43: are especially interesting here because most of us have a similar baseline with :43: gear. It may be easier to describe how camera X performs if you compare it to something that is widely used or understood on this forum. That is a huge strength, as long as we don't take every potential slight to heart and feel the need to defend our gear. Which is just silly anyway.
     
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