Every argument we ever tried to make about m43 - now DPR is a genius

WT21

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https://www.dpreview.com/videos/633...-call-for-slow-professional-full-frame-lenses

We've been saying this for years. m43 lenses are sharp wide open. You get compact and small, etc.

Now they are basically saying "since m43 is 'dead' let's build f/5.6 and f/8.0 lenses for FF so we have small"

Should have just bought m43. Oh, but then you wouldn't have had the ability to have DOF the thickness of a sheet of paper (if that) and crappy corners.

/rant
 
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PakkyT

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It is like I just said in another thread where the new Sigma was brought up. Anyone can make smaller and cheaper lenses if they compromise and obviously slow/small apertures is an easy way to start. I didn't watch that video since I have no interest in FF, but how do you have "Pro" lenses with "Kit" specs.

While I tend to think Oly camera bodies are overpriced, I have always thought their lens pricing was pretty good because the more expensive ones have always had better specs. They were not overpriced for what you got, but a lot of people like to complain about them because those are the people who want those Pro specs & performance but are not willing to pay for it, as if they are owed something. I don't complain about the price of a Turbo charged automobile because I only want to pay for a naturally aspirated engine but feel I am entitled to Turbo performance.
 

gwydionjhr

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I have a list of requirements for what I'm looking for in lenses for my dog photography, and this very thing had occurred to me when looking for alternatives to the GX8 + Pl 8-18 combo that I use.
 
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Canon already has a release schedule in 2020 for at least 2 such lenses:

https://fstoppers.com/gear/canons-2...w-lenses-including-nifty-fifty-and-two-492461

Yes, f/11 long glass. The DO IS STM is not L spec, so affordable relatively, maybe much less than the Olympus 300/4. The DO design should keep them light and compact. Not a versatile lens, but one that says “for your 2x a year wildlife photo sessions, we’ve got you covered.” It’s specialist glass.

That aperture means they will be skinny, white tubes, a design style not seen since the Pentax DA 560/5.6, except not as long:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/891523-USA

That L 100-500 is the one to keep an eye on, though, especially with those listed TCs, and the design ethos of the collapsible R 70-200/2.8. We will see Canon FF long glass competing firmly in the m43 “Pro” ambition. To be seen if this glass will be tripod or handheld capable. Prices TBD.
 
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While I tend to think Oly camera bodies are overpriced, I have always thought their lens pricing was pretty good because the more expensive ones have always had better specs. They were not overpriced for what you got, but a lot of people like to complain about them because those are the people who want those Pro specs & performance but are not willing to pay for it, as if they are owed something.
At least a &{$(#@] hood and bag for some lenses not so provided.
 

wimg

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/rant

https://www.dpreview.com/videos/633...-call-for-slow-professional-full-frame-lenses

We've been saying this for years. m43 lenses are sharp wide open. You get compact and small, etc.

Now they are basically saying "since m43 is 'dead' let's build f/5.6 and f/8.0 lenses for FF so we have small"

Should have just bought m43. Oh, but then you wouldn't have had the ability to have DOF the thickness of a sheet of paper (if that) and crappy corners.
:)
That depends entirely on the lenses chosen.

I really like we have a choice. Personally, I have MFT for the convenience of packing small and light, and FF for other stuff, so I can choose whatever suits me best for a particular shoot.

Kind regards, Wim
 

davidzvi

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..... but how do you have "Pro" lenses with "Kit" specs.....
You can have Pro build, optics, features, etc with smaller apertures.

Canon already has a release schedule in 2020 for at least 2 such lenses:.....
Nikon already has the Nikon 200-500mm f/5.6E F-Mount. It might be interesting if Olympus or JIP releases one of the other Pro zooms how it compares.

I wonder how the size of the RF 100-500mm f/4.5-7.1L will compare to the PL50-200 f/2.8-4.0.
 

John King

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BushmanOrig

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/rant

https://www.dpreview.com/videos/633...-call-for-slow-professional-full-frame-lenses

We've been saying this for years. m43 lenses are sharp wide open. You get compact and small, etc.

Now they are basically saying "since m43 is 'dead' let's build f/5.6 and f/8.0 lenses for FF so we have small"

Should have just bought m43. Oh, but then you wouldn't have had the ability to have DOF the thickness of a sheet of paper (if that) and crappy corners.
When done with the recording, back in the tearoom, they make fun of all those who believe every word they say...

Within the first few minutes so many half-truths & unimportant crap...

You really wasting your time listening to DPR - well-paid advertising...

I know I should avoid these threads... and was caught again...
 

BushmanOrig

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DPR and all those bigger are better advocates need to clarify ONE question.... only ONE:-

The Sony A7 III (24MP) pixel size is half that of the A7S and it performs as good in low light - both are full-frame

DPR.jpg
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)


And they should not come with new technology bla bla bla - the premise was always and again in this fake video full frame is better...

Now I always said the theory is correct but the focus of the discussion is totally misplaced. The full-frame is better scam took something insignificant and they blew it up as if its something and sold it to a trusting believing photography community... (that was polite - they deceived people)

All said - the damage is done - M43 took a huge hit - and we are where we are - the one thing left, don't give them the time... they not worth it!!

I said it the other day, especially DPR should grow a pair, pick up their huuuuuuge lenses and background blur and work with them... the fools...
 
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Reflector

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I wonder how the size of the RF 100-500mm f/4.5-7.1L will compare to the PL50-200 f/2.8-4.0.
The L designator makes me think it'll perform better than the RF 24-105mm f/4-7.1 from Canon's marketing but looking at that slow aperture I don't have high expectations since the lens will be operating near diffraction limit on the higher (as in higher than 20-24mp) pixel density sensors like the 30mp and the insane MP monster which it will likely have mediocre performance on.
 
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And they should not come with new technology bla bla bla - the premise was always and again in this fake video full frame is better..

...

The full-frame is better scam took something insignificant and they blew it up as if its something and sold it to a trusting believing photography community...
Come on man, tone it down a little bit. In photography, everything is a compromise. MFT has different compromises than FF. I understand your emotional attachment to MFT, and I would personally also be sad to see it go. But you are not helping anyone with your "scam" comments.
 

BushmanOrig

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Canon already has a release schedule in 2020 for at least 2 such lenses:

https://fstoppers.com/gear/canons-2...w-lenses-including-nifty-fifty-and-two-492461

Yes, f/11 long glass. The DO IS STM is not L spec, so affordable relatively, maybe much less than the Olympus 300/4. The DO design should keep them light and compact. Not a versatile lens, but one that says “for your 2x a year wildlife photo sessions, we’ve got you covered.” It’s specialist glass.

That aperture means they will be skinny, white tubes, a design style not seen since the Pentax DA 560/5.6, except not as long:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/891523-USA

That L 100-500 is the one to keep an eye on, though, especially with those listed TCs, and the design ethos of the collapsible R 70-200/2.8. We will see Canon FF long glass competing firmly in the m43 “Pro” ambition. To be seen if this glass will be tripod or handheld capable. Prices TBD.
Canon the creators of the full-frame is better narrative first needs to get their house in order... They have:-
- No clear strategy - is it DSLR or are they, at last, going full mirrorless?
- What is their product line up - call it out like OMD, GH series, Pen, A7 series, XT series
- What is the RiP, R, R5, R7, R8 - when will which come and what will it have?
- It's no strategy to throw everything you have in a product, 8K, 6K RAW, plus plus..., and hope something hits the mark
- You will never repeat the 300D low price genius plan again - the market is too different (only Canon will sell a FF at less than the A7 2nd-hand)
- The M series APC cameras is a joke
- The new R series lenses are huge and unpractical - again packed with gimmicks

No really they excellent at marketing, but if they will only focus that energy on next-gen products...

Something you never expect - even when the financials indicate the opposite - Nikon has a much clearer mirrorless product path and positioning, don't be surprised if Nikon is the one that will go ahead into the future and not Canon...

The end of the economic catastrophe the virus fear mongers are pushing is the big unknown... (have they learned nothing?)
 

BushmanOrig

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Come on man, tone it down a little bit. In photography, everything is a compromise. MFT has different compromises than FF. I understand your emotional attachment to MFT, and I would personally also be sad to see it go. But you are not helping anyone with your "scam" comments.
You right Frank - we should be silent, we should accept, this was only clever marketing and the photography community bought it hook line and weight... :)

Be quiet, hide your M43 camera, and be happy you still have one...

I am OK - last on this... :)
 

mike3996

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The reason why I don't shoot M4/3 is not the lenses or the crop factor. It's the bodies. When a body doesn't fit your hand or the software your brain, there's not a lot you can do.

Getting slow lenses for FF is only a big win for everyone. It means you can carry and shoot light (just as you'd do with M43) but you can also carry a fast prime to carry you through the night. This luxury wasn't available with DSLRs because the optical viewfinders would be unusably dim with F/8 lenses but thanks to mirrorless, it's feasible. CaNiSony are smart to produce these lenses. Hopefully more to come.

After the Olympus news this whole forum has become a whole lot more fanboyish. :/ Gotta protect our turf, no matter the facts.
 

Egregius V

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Or lack of facts. Although the end (or next chapter) of the Olympus story isn't written yet, people will vent their emotions. I think the best use of my time is to keep enjoying photography, remember that my gear is still the right gear for me (that's why I bought it), ignore a lot of new threads, and keep contributing in positive ways to the robust and fun community here. :2thumbs:

Too bad all this sand-pounding is eclipsing what to me is an interesting technical topic - slower glass for full-frame mirrorless cameras. But I'm afraid the trouble goes all the way back to the provocative thread title.
 
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exakta

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Getting slow lenses for FF is only a big win for everyone.
The problem is that DSLRs went gonzo for fast glass. 35mm film SLRs never had anything faster than f4 once you hit 300mm and beyond 500mm f8 was considered fast!

These new "slow" lenses are just a return to optical and financial sanity as far as I'm concerned.
 
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