Equivalence (hypothesis): Could future FF mirrorless F/8 and F/5.6 lenses (ever so slightly press upon) the m43 pro system?

[MichailK]

Terror!

Now than Canikon finaly got into the mirrorless game with all the shallower flange distance lens miniaturization benefits,
the bodies they introduced are pretty much similar in size to the EM1ii/G9 pro bodies.

The m43 system has great constant F/2.8 and F/4 zoom lenses and the system’s sharpest aperture is F/4,
while the FF system has a sharpest aperture of F/8, has the same DoF at 2x the F and and fares better in the noise dept. by 1.5+ stops to compensate for darker apertures,
so...

could, say, an hypothetical Nikon Z 24-80/5.6 VR be the same size and weight as the Oly 12-40/2.8?
or an Nikon Z 24-200/8 VR be the same size and weight as the Oly 12-100/4?

because I see serious trouble for the m43 pro offerings in the future if such size/weight equivalence is possible because with a, say, Z7+24-200/8 VR combo you would get a similar package to the EM1ii+12-100/4 with the added benefits of faster albeit heavier FF lens options if you choose so, maybe until hypothetical FF F/2.8 primes show up (ok, the EM1ii could get smaller m43 lenses options as well but is this enough in the pro or advanced amateur class of $$??)

mind you! I am not getting IBIS, the great m43 weapon, in the conversation yet.

what do you think, am I going bonkers?

have a look here

 

[ibd]

Discussion aside, I find it very abrasive to always read content in terms of "terror" and "kill". We're talking about our hobby (i.e., the technical gadgets we call "cameras") here, not war and violence.

 

[retiredfromlife]

I have had similar thoughts.........

 

[MichailK]

Discussion aside, I find it very abrasive to always read content in terms of "terror" and "kill". We're talking about our hobby (i.e., the technical gadgets we call "cameras") here, not war and violence.

hey, I am not that serious!!
however, if others feel the same, I can always replace “terror” with ”apocalypse” or ”armagedon”

and I am sure the Canikon marketing depts. have a very different view on what margins they can milk out of such equivalence products in the long run - they may just not feel any motive to push heavily on the m43 pro segment after all future margins are accounted for

 

[MarcioK]

It could be - but I doubt that Nikon will ever release a Nikon Z 24-80/5.6 VR. Just because all the "pros" that spend all their time shooting wall bricks to pixel peep and takin all of their photos with very shallow DOF because of lackin knowledge and composition skill will never accept a zoom lens with "paltry" f/5.6 aperture. That's why the 50 f/0.95 Noct exists - for 0,005% of the market that really needs and know how to use it wisely and the rest are people with deep pockets fascinated with their portraits with just the iris of the subject in focus ("look the bokeh!").

There are a lot of good f4 zooms in the current full-frame mirrorless lineups (with VERY good optical performance) and what is the first thing that most reviews say? "I just wish it was faster".

And faster lenses = greater margins. Is where the industry is going with a contracting market: bigger margins.

 

[drd1135]

Yeah, we'll never know. The FF guys will never release stuff that slow unless it's an attempt at a lightweight telephoto.

 

[Robstar1963]

Terror!

Now than Canikon finaly got into the mirrorless game with all the shallower flange distance lens miniaturization benefits,
the bodies they introduced are pretty much similar in size to the EM1ii/G9 pro bodies.

The m43 system has great constant F/2.8 and F/4 zoom lenses and the system’s sharpest aperture is F/4,
while the FF system has a sharpest aperture of F/8, has the same DoF at 2x the F and and fares better in the noise dept. by 1.5+ stops to compensate for darker apertures,
so...

could, say, an hypothetical Nikon Z 24-80/5.6 VR be the same size and weight as the Oly 12-40/2.8?
or an Nikon Z 24-200/8 VR be the same size and weight as the Oly 12-100/4?

because I see serious trouble for the m43 pro offerings in the future if such size/weight equivalence is possible because with a, say, Z7+24-200/8 VR combo you would get a similar package to the EM1ii+12-100/4 with the added benefits of faster albeit heavier FF lens options if you choose so, maybe until hypothetical FF F/2.8 primes show up (ok, the EM1ii could get smaller m43 lenses options as well but is this enough in the pro or advanced amateur class of $$??)

mind you! I am not getting IBIS, the great m43 weapon, in the conversation yet.

what do you think, am I going bonkers?

have a look here

Idle and meaningless speculation

 

[The Grumpy Snapper]

Another ridiculous photo forum thread although not even close to the most ridiculous of January 2020. Which reminds me, I should write the blog post for the most ridiculous thread.

 

[panamike]

Just bought the twin lens Z50 kit, weight and size takes the advantage away from a lot of m4/3 but------- if i want to shoot over 250mm i lose that advantage and if it matters you lose IBIS with the small Z50

 

[turbodieselvw]

this post is a waste of bandwidth

 

[TNcasual]

Just bought the twin lens Z50 kit, weight and size takes the advantage away from a lot of m4/3 but------- if i want to shoot over 250mm i lose that advantage and if it matters you lose IBIS with the small Z50

What about with Nikon's Phase Fresnel glass?

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

The Nikon Z50 with the 300mm PF lens is 1205 grams, the close to equivalent in focal length E-M1ii with PL 200 comes in at 1819 grams.

 

[Pluttis]

Just bought the twin lens Z50 kit, weight and size takes the advantage away from a lot of m4/3 but------- if i want to shoot over 250mm i lose that advantage and if it matters you lose IBIS with the small Z50

Might be true for that kit but other than that...havent seen any other native Z lenses used with Z50 that take away the size and weight advatages from m43?

 

[MichailK]

To anyone agitated by this “what if” thread I posted:
The only thing tempting me out of the m43 system for the foreseeable future is an X100V acquisition which I may not be able to afford after all.

I feel comfy with my low budget m43 kit, like the results, not minding the grain almost at all

HOWEVER

if I was going to throw serious $$ over the years in the "pro" segment I would be very uncomfortable looking at such developements that however much naysaying there is, the threat is clear

View attachment 799499

I would definetely look into the Canikon mirrorless lenses roadmap before investing big and for long into m43 pro stuff - at least, from what I read Nikon cannot keep a high enough production yield with the fresnels and who knows if such tech is applcable to the normal or wide primes.

also as many others note:

Yeah, we'll never know. The FF guys will never release stuff that slow unless it's an attempt at a lightweight telephoto.

it seems that Canikon is so entangled into legacy aperture values from the slow film days that they can never persuade the masses they had years believing that anything slower than a 1.8 prime or a 2.8 zoom is shamefully slow....

So I feel the m43 pro segment has time to come up with something more than IBIS under its sleeve.
Because technically it really seems doable in this full mirrorless age, at least to my middle-of-the-road brains and that is why this thread was posted

 

[Pluttis]

Doubt many FF shooters would be interessed in buying fixed f5.6 or f8 lenses and i dont really see that Nikon, Canon or Sony would be that interessted in develop such lenses.

If i would throw serious $$ on FF system again, i for sure know that i would not do that on f5.6 or f8 lenses

 

[MichailK]

If i would throw serious $$ on FF system again, i for sure know that i would not do that on f5.6 or f8 lenses

far future speculation: if they had the same final cost to the m43 equivalent combos at similar size & weight along stabilization, then what would you do?

 

[GBarrington]

Terror!

Now than Canikon finaly got into the mirrorless game with all the shallower flange distance lens miniaturization benefits,
the bodies they introduced are pretty much similar in size to the EM1ii/G9 pro bodies.

The m43 system has great constant F/2.8 and F/4 zoom lenses and the system’s sharpest aperture is F/4,
while the FF system has a sharpest aperture of F/8, has the same DoF at 2x the F and and fares better in the noise dept. by 1.5+ stops to compensate for darker apertures,
so...

could, say, an hypothetical Nikon Z 24-80/5.6 VR be the same size and weight as the Oly 12-40/2.8?
or an Nikon Z 24-200/8 VR be the same size and weight as the Oly 12-100/4?

because I see serious trouble for the m43 pro offerings in the future if such size/weight equivalence is possible because with a, say, Z7+24-200/8 VR combo you would get a similar package to the EM1ii+12-100/4 with the added benefits of faster albeit heavier FF lens options if you choose so, maybe until hypothetical FF F/2.8 primes show up (ok, the EM1ii could get smaller m43 lenses options as well but is this enough in the pro or advanced amateur class of $$??)

mind you! I am not getting IBIS, the great m43 weapon, in the conversation yet.

what do you think, am I going bonkers?

have a look here

Not my problem! That is Olympus' problem. I've always enjoyed the funny little twist in Olympus' thinking when it comes to cameras. But the 'Death of Olympus' won't stop me from taking photos or kill my interest in photography. Olympus will either find a way to compete, or it will not.

 

[MichailK]

But the 'Death of Olympus' won't stop me from taking photos or kill my interest in photography.

exactly that

 

[wjiang]

Cameras don't tend focus well when they can't work with anything brighter than f/8...

 

[MichailK]

Cameras don't tend focus well when they can't work with anything brighter than f/8...

hmm, is it the same as in the DSLR age?

 

[Pluttis]

far future speculation: if they had the same final cost to the m43 equivalent combos at similar size & weight along stabilization, then what would you do?

I would stick with m43...Unless you need high resolution whats the point and real advantage of buing a FF camera if only to use it with F5.6 and F8 lenses?

M43 is more than enough for my needs and my photography.