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EPM1 or a Fuji X10?

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by sokar, Nov 30, 2011.

  1. sokar

    sokar Mu-43 Veteran

    392
    Nov 30, 2011
    Hi all,

    I am a long time reader and first time poster. I am considering purchasing another camera and seek the advice of the more experienced amongst you. The 2 cameras I am looking at are the EPM1 and the X10. Different cameras I know, but in a similar price range.

    I currently own an EP1, 17mm, Oly 45mm, Oly 40 – 150mm and FL36R + multiple batteries and filters. I have used this set up now for about 18 months and IMHO there are 2 deficiencies with the EP1 that limit the functionality; no EVF and poor focusing in low light. I have to admit that with the 45mm attached the pictures are considerably sharper than with the 17mm or the kit zoom.

    I visited a camera shop recently and played with both the EPM1 and the X10. Most are impressive in their own right and both have advantages over the other. I was concerned that the EPM1 may be rather limited in functionality after using an EP1 for some time, but I have discovered that one can activate the SCP. I predominantly operate in Aperture mode and with the SCP available the EPM1 would be a good choice.

    On the other hand the X10 is most impressive and I have read many users’ experiences on this site. All are positive and many state that the results are on par with the Oly M43 sensor the majority of the time. I see it has a very small built in flash and this would be lower power than the EPM1 clip on. Currently the EPM1 is bundled with the kit lens and the VF3 and post duty free would cost $530 USD. The X10 would cost $565, so very similar.

    I am uncertain whether to diverge away from the M43 class for this purchase; the cameras are a similar size and with primes fitted the EPM1 is only marginally larger. The logical side says to maximise the use of the M43 lens etc and purchase the EPM1. The emotional side steers me towards the X10. The build quality of the X10 is wonderful, and only the sensor size is concerning. Then of course there is the Oly dramas are present and whether there will be a future.

    At times I enjoy the DOF that M43 can generate, but this is not paramount for me in a camera; there are many times when I am stopping down for everything in the frame to be in focus. I am not into printing large posters.

    I would be very interested to hear the opinions of those who have experienced the X10 and how comparable the results are to the current Oly Pens for OOC JPEGS which is what I use 99% of the time.

    Thank you in advance for any feedback.
     
  2. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    Welcome sokar. I've been through a couple of E-PL1s, and a handful of Panny :43: offerings. While I like the Panny's better in many ways, I always miss the SOOC JPEGs that the E-PL1 delivered, so I think I know where you are coming from. I have had an X10 for a few weeks. With it I don't miss those Oly JPEGs. I'd even give the overall edge to the X10, as it does skin tones better to my eye, which is a priority for me.

    I can't speak to the newer PENs, but I don't recall reading on here that the JPEG output is much different.

    It's a tough choice X10 vs E-PM1. If you like the zoom range of the X10 and place a value on the simplicity of one camera that will produce really good images then the X10 certainly warrants a hard look. If you will miss your primes and being able to up the IQ to great then certainly the E-PM1 is a better choice.

    I more or less swapped a GF1 + 20/1.7 lens for the X10. I loved that lens on that camera, but 90% of the time the X10 is a better fit for me. I still use a DSLR for times when IQ is my absolute priority though, so the limitations of the smaller sensor of the X10 don't bother me all that much.

    Finally, you should consider the White Dot Syndrome with the X10. If you haven't heard about it check out the Fujifilm forum on DPReview. In high contrast scenes reflected (or direct) light can become a bright white circle in photos. Unclear if Fuji can/will fix this via firmware, but depending on what you shoot it could be worth considering.

    Good luck with your decision, though I imagine you really can't go wrong.
     
  3. David

    David Mu-43 Veteran

    303
    Jun 22, 2011
    Sydney
    I am in the same boat. I was considering a new compact to replace my canon G9.

    BUt the fuji x10 seem so good until I saw how physically small the EPM1 really is.
    But I think I may go fuji x10 for now as it has the skin tones and macro. I am not leaving
    micro 4/3. Just need something to compliment my main 4/3 camera.
     
  4. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs Super Moderator

    Apr 17, 2010
    Near Philadephila
    Too different to really compare. I have the X10 and a pretty complete m43 setup built around the epl3, and I LOVE the X10 as a camera for when I want to travel really light and it really does a lot of things very well. I, personally, wouldn't buy it instead of a nice m43 camera, but rather in addition to one. Only you can really know your needs, but the epm1 is a pretty major advance over the ep1 in operation, if not in looks or IQ and I'd upgrade that first and maybe get an x10 later if funds allow.

    Neither is a bad call, but that's what I'd do. Also, be aware of the "white dot" issue that's turning up with the X10. I haven't has any problem with it despite shooting a lot with the X10 in conditions that seem to have caused it to happen for some, but it's something to at least be aware of. It seems worst for people doing long exposure night photography in lighted environments, but it CAN happen on a really bright day with reflections off of cars and buildings and whatnot. I don't want to overstate it because a lot of people have had no trouble with it (me included) but I'd be a bit more nervous about it as a primary camera because of that.

    -Ray
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. e_kjellgren

    e_kjellgren Mu-43 Regular

    173
    Oct 17, 2011
    Sweden
    [ame=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdI_bjQrhX8&feature=channel_video_title]Fujifilm Finepix X10 Hands-on Review - YouTube[/ame]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. sokar

    sokar Mu-43 Veteran

    392
    Nov 30, 2011
    Thank you all for your responses. It is a difficult decision. I have read every review on both and watched multiple video reviews. Nowhere is the white spot issue mentioned. Great to know and warrants further investigation.

    I have to admit that I love the form of the EPM1 and bundled with the EVF it makes a great small package for a 43 sensor. The EPM1 deal is valid for the whole month and therefore I have some time to decide.
     
  7. Ray Sachs

    Ray Sachs Super Moderator

    Apr 17, 2010
    Near Philadephila
    The white dot issue looks like a minor thing for most shooters, but could be major for some, depending on what and how you shoot. Read up on it, check out the examples - don't freak of about it but you should be aware of it. I really love the x10, I just wouldn't choose it over m43 as a primary or only camera unless you've specifically decided that an ILC is overkill for you.

    Good luck,

    -Ray
     
  8. Biro

    Biro Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 8, 2011
    Jersey Shore
    Steve
    I agree with Ray: Be aware of the white-dot issue but don't allow it to rule out the camera. I expect I'll pick up an X10 myself in a few months. I personally own the E-PM1 and can recommend it highly. But understand it is not without an issue of its own.

    Some people (again, not everyone) feel the camera's in-body image stabilation may actually work against sharpness under certain circumstances. This may be because the stabilization system is sensitive to vibration from the camera's shutter. The solution has been to use stabilization the way it really should be used: Turn it off unless you are shooting at very slow shutter speeds and/or operate the stabilization in Mode 3, which makes it less sensitive to vertical motion.

    But, as with reports of white spots with the X10, this not not something that should rule out the E-PM1 for you. Both are great cameras.
     
  9. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
  10. Hyubie

    Hyubie Unique like everyone else

    Oct 15, 2010
    Massachusetts
    Herbert
    Same boat here! I have a G3, but sometimes I just need a small body with a nice zoom and aperture range without having to change lenses. I was initially looking at the XZ-1, then came across the Fuji X-10 and saw the JPEGs. Oh wow.

    On the other hand, I could see how nice that E-PM1 will look (and how small it is) with the primes - the Oly 45, Panny 20, and the 14mm (!!).

    These choices are killing me.
     
  11. krugorg

    krugorg Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jul 18, 2011
    Minnesota USA
    It seems like if you already are invested in m4/3 lenses, it would make more sense to get the E-PM1 first. Also, with many of the m4/3 lenses mounted, the E-PM1 is smaller than the X10.
     
  12. David

    David Mu-43 Veteran

    303
    Jun 22, 2011
    Sydney
    The price of x10 will settle down a bit after 6 months and there are always firmware
    upgrade and the white spot issue should be fixed by then. ( hopefully)
     
  13. sokar

    sokar Mu-43 Veteran

    392
    Nov 30, 2011
    Thanks again for all the feedback. The IBIS with the EPM1 is something that would seem to be more of an idiosyncrasy to this body that be worked around when needed, rather than a showstopper. I am steering towards the Oly body and will ponder the decision for a few more days prior to purchasing. I agree that the EPM1 is a wonderful small package and once one handles one is it rather impressive that a BLS1 battery, IBIS and 43 sensor can fit into such a small package. I am used to the SCP and working in aperture mode 99% of the time should enable this camera to be used effectively, with reasonably quick adjustments to the majority of settings.

    As a step up from the EP1 I am looking forward to the quicker focusing especially in poor light. I have never used any of the 14-42mm kits lenses of any generation previously; is it worth keeping or selling as an unused product. I gather it is not worth that much on its own. I have to admit that learning to use cameras again after a long time away from the hobby I have become accustomed to using my feet rather than a zoom ring.

    I would hope that my 45mm Oly lens will focus much quicker and have some hopes that the 17mm may also be marginally quicker than on the EP1. I have used my EP1 and FL36R flash significantly at parties and am constantly amazed at the quality of pics and the TTL capabilities of the combination. The limitation with this set up has always been poor lighting and the focusing hunting of the lens. I am hopeful that the bundled flash with the EPM1 will achieve similar results at times where a flash is required.

    I have never used a 20mm pany lens before and have always been happy with the oly 17mm. That was until I purchased the oly 45mm lens and discovered how sharp a lens can be on m43. Some big decisions ahead in lens choices. All the pics I have seen from the pany 25mm are wonderful and the fast zooms soon to be announced warrant study.

    Regardless of whether oly remains afloat to release another generation of camera bodies, this small m43 body should be a great addition to the kit.
     
  14. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    Moving from an ep1 AF to the new pens is wonderful. You will be very pleasantly surprised.

    Sent from my iPhone using Mu-43 App
     
  15. sokar

    sokar Mu-43 Veteran

    392
    Nov 30, 2011
    Thanks for the response. I have read your wonderful review of the new body and am rather keen. It is hard to tell whether to mount the EP1 as a museum piece or keep using it. It is still a great unit, just a little limited in the focussing in poor light and the lack of EVF.
     
  16. The Duke

    The Duke New to Mu-43

    1
    Dec 7, 2011
    I've just faced a similar decision with purchasing a camera for the Duchess.....in the end I decided on an E-PL3 kit (mainly for the accessibility of the mode control dial on top) and a panasonic 20mm f1.7 lens. It may not be as compact (or cheap) as the X10, but like yourself I already own a variety of 4/3 lenses and adaptors, so it seemed to be a better fit for now. I also really like the IQ of the Panny lens.
     
  17. Hyubie

    Hyubie Unique like everyone else

    Oct 15, 2010
    Massachusetts
    Herbert
    I think Amazon's $50 price reduction today is a step towards that "settling down." I decided to go all-prime on my :43:, and the X10 as my zoom. :smile:
     
  18. Shanti

    Shanti New to Mu-43

    1
    Dec 18, 2011
    Denmark
    Hi see dpreview fujitalk forum for alot of Fuji X10 WDS(white disk syndrome) examples..its does exist and may be a problem if you shoot certain types of subjects..I doubt a firmware update will fix it,maybe lessen it a bit, but otherwise its a great camera and faster lens than EPM1 stock lens.


     
  19. Microman

    Microman Mu-43 Regular

    36
    Jan 16, 2012
    If you already own a micro 4/3 kit, I would not go for the Fuji X10. You loose image quality and I don't think the white dot issue can be fixed via software. If you don't want to switch lenses, why not get two identical micro 4/3 bodies? The whole kit will still weigh next to nothing, it will fit in a small bag and you always have a spare camera. Also, I would not choose a small Olympus body, but a Panasonic like the G3 or GX1. Better grip, less noise and higher resolution, etc.
     
  20. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Probably should ask "G1X or X10"...?

    IMHO, the E-PM1 is the "hands-down" winner in the current comparison. :smile: