Entry level m4/3?

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by Stregone, May 4, 2016.

  1. Stregone

    Stregone Mu-43 Regular

    May 4, 2016
    Manassas, VA, USA
    I have a canon 1dmk3, and a 70d and a decent collection of EF and Ef-s lenses. I have been feeling like I want to add something different to my collection lately. I have been over going full frame, or going smaller and more portable. Full frame for, well, no explanation is needed there I don't think. And smaller because I don't find myself carrying my camera everywhere like I used to. I have been bouncing back and forth and around inside each option for a couple weeks (dang bad weather is making me obsess over gear instead of shooting, lol). The new pentax k-1 first caught my attention. Then I started looking at the 6d so I wouldn't need new lenses, then over to the a7ii because adapted lenses, then what the heck just go all out on a 5dmkiii. But hey, check out the 5ds, look at that 5dsr too! Ok ok, thats way too much dial it back. Lets look at the k-1 again... (paste in looking at m4/3 stuff in between all of those...)

    Yeah I know, I need to get out and just shoot before I go insane.

    I THINK I have settled on going small instead. This would be in addition to my current kit, not replacing anything. I eventually want to go full frame too, but I think I have realized that I am better off waiting a generation on that, especially if I stay all canon on the dslr front and for the price level I am at.

    So m4/3 looks pretty cool, unfortunately I know nothing about them and it seems like there isn't a ton of information comparing them for some reason? The olympus om-d e10 ii looks like what I want. It is available with 2 kit lenses, any thoughts as to which to choose? What other options do I have at that same price point? I have basically zero interest in video, just photos.

    Thank you for your insights and thank you for reading my rambling, lol.
  2. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    The E-M10 II kit is a great entry camera into M43. I'd also look into getting the Olympus 25mm 1.8 prime lens as well. M43 primes are very good and the Olympus 25mm would be great on the E-M10 II!
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  3. TNcasual

    TNcasual Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Dec 2, 2014
    Knoxville, TN
    I concur. The E-M10 is a great entry point into m4/3. It is sufficiently advanced, small, and has an EVF.

    The other option would be to go Sony E/FE Mount. You could get the adapter to allow autofocus of your lenses on the camera. The a6000 or a6300 might be good options on the entry level side.
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  4. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Hi, welcome to the forum.

    Unless you really need the smallest possible lens to keep the E-M10 into a pocket I'd go with the "full size" kit zoom, the "R" version (rather then the "EZ" pancake version). Less complaints around, mechanical zoom rather then electronic, bigger focus ring.

    Another camera I'd look at is the Panasonic GX85/80 with the 12-32 lens.

    If you want to save something the old E-M10 or the GX7 are interesting. Or look for a good offer for the E-M1 (not entry level, but the price is good).

    If you want/need weather sealing there are other options.
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  5. SVQuant

    SVQuant Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 20, 2015
    SF Bay Area, California, USA
    I moved from Nikon DSLRs to m43 and started with the E-M10. The E-M10 II has some nice upgrades over it and I would certainly go for that if I was starting today. The two kit lenses are the 14-42II and the 14-42EZ which is a pancake. Image quality from both of them looks pretty similar. Unless you are interested in the pancake for its size, I would save some $ by going for the 14-42II kit. One of the great attractions of m43 for me was (and continues to be) the excellent small primes. I would second the suggestion for picking up the O25/1.8 or the P25/1.7 as a companion to the kit zoom. You could also use your canon lenses on m43 using an adapter and some adapters even allow auto-focus.
  6. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    Welcome Stregone. What would you be using your new m4/3s gear for primarily? Is video important to you in this camera? Budget considerations?
  7. JensM

    JensM Mu-43 Veteran Subscribing Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    Oslo(ish), Norway
    As screename
    I pondered with much of the same question, since I got back into Dslrs in 09, had high hopes for something portable in the fujifilm line-up, but fell head over heels for the Pen-F in January.

    I ended up with a Panasonic GX7 with a 12-32 and a 35-100 for economical reasons and find I actually brings it with me and take pictures, lots of them. :)
  8. algold

    algold Mu-43 Regular

    Apr 8, 2016
    Stregone, just go for it :). E-M10 II is quite amazing, responsive and very quiet. The image quality is pretty much on par with your 70D and the AF speed in single shot mode will be similar. SOOC Jpegs look better to me than Canon's, ergonomics is very good, especially considering the size of E-M10, and it's packed with features and options. Oly's touchscreen and menus are a bad joke compared to Canon's, but after setting the camera and the function buttons up to your liking you won't need to use menus too often. You didn't tell what you mainly shoot, so can't comment on lens selection, but the kit zoom is good and if you like a "normal" perspective - O25/1.8 will be a good prime to start with.
    Just to show the size difference between FF, APS-C and micro 4/3:

    Just for the reference, I have 40D, 100D/SL1, EOS-M and EOS-M3 and recently picked up an E-M10 II with 14-42EZ and O45/1.8
    Cheers, Alex

    PS. btw, EOS-M3 might be another option for you, but E-M10 II is more fun :)
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  9. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Legend

    Definitely compare the Panasonic G7 at that price point. Same cost and similar size to the E-M10 II. Adds 4K video and a little bit better AF and grip, but loses in body stabilization. Coming from Canon, you probably won't miss that too much.

    Be careful, though. M4/3 is as good as Canon for most things, and better in many ways. You might find your Canon stuff collecting dust by this time next year! That's what happened to me.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    I'd pick the GM5, EM10ii or GX85. These are more like mid-range models, with lots of great features. Entry-level price point are dominated by casual features, like the selfie-LCD of the GF7.
  11. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    my opinion for a "toe dipper" is to get a good used GH1 for $150 (or less) with the 14-45 lens.

    minimum spend , maximum benefits and a sensor that's actually pretty close to the modern stuff. My GH1 still holds up to a GH4 and to an EM-5

    in my view ...: Generations - GH1 vs E-M5

    in my view ...: GH1 vs GH4 - generations

    speaking as a software engineer as my day job (PHP and Oracle) I find that every time I pick up the newer cameras I'm fuddling around with this or that setting and how to get here and how to engage that. I started with EOS in 35mm film and got out starting at about 2009 ... selling 10 and 20D cameras and a bunch of lenses as I got into m43 (with a G1). I find that the older Panasonic cameras have everything arranged where I want it and I seldom ever consulted a manual. Like my EOS cameras before there was less on the menus and more on the cameras.

    Now with the new ones (and Oly is a daunting menu system, even the Olyphiles would agree) its even worse.

    its the sleeper cell of m43 (and once the greatest there was).

    PS: the GH1 also has a "multi format sensor" so when you choose 16:9 format in stills you do get actually wider images.

    This is an overlay of two images taken with the camera on a tripod and just changing from 4:3 to 16:9


    you said you aren't interested in video, but unlike almost every other camera when you do HD video you actually don't get cropping.
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
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  12. flamingfish

    flamingfish Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    Nov 16, 2012
    You could look at an e-m5 mk I, too, particularly if weathersealing might interest you. The e-m10 mk II has a few bells & whistles that the e-m5 mk I lacks, but they might be balanced out by the weathersealing and the more solid build. The e-m5 is only slightly larger than the e-m10. If price isn't a major concern, look at the e-m5 mark II.

    If you see the e-m10 mark II package that includes both the 14-42 and the 40-150 f/4-5.6 lenses for a good price, you should consider it. (If it's more than $100 more than the package with the 14-42 alone, skip it and look at the 40-150 separately.) The 40-150 f/4-5.6 has a very plasticky build, but takes much better pictures than you'd expect for a lens of that price. Don't confuse it with the 40-150 2.8 pro, which is a whole different story in quality, size, and price.

    If you want a wide(ish) pancake, unless price is your main consideration, skip the Olympus 17mm 2.8 and look at the Panasonic 20mm 1.7 or the Oly 17mm 1.8. If you like that focal length (34mm or 40mm equivalent), you'll have a nice small package to carry around with you. Not strictly pocketable, unless your pockets are large, but way smaller than a DSLR.

    One learns to live with the Olympus menu system. Once you've customized a few buttons and enabled the Super Control Panel (which should be the first thing you do), you won't have to use the menus that often.
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  13. sigamy

    sigamy Mu-43 Regular

    Dec 4, 2012
    You have good advice here. I'll add my $0.02.

    If you are interested in video, Panny has the edge. The latest Pannys have some form of IBIS, but I believe not as good as Oly's 5-axis IBIS. Panny zooms are stabilized, Oly are not.
    Some folks like Panny's menu system more than Oly. Many folks rave about Oly's JPEGs. If you get an older Panny body without IBIS, you then need to stick with Panny lenses for zooms.

    Panny Rangefinders: GX8, GX85, GX7.
    "SLR style:" GH4, G7, (if you want to save money even GH3, G6).

    Olympus Rangefinders: See the Pen line, many options, only PEN-F has built-in EVF.
    OMD E-M10 Mark II: great features in small package. See E-M10 Mark 1 if you want to save $.
    OMD E-M5 and E-M1: prosumer bodies, I believe both have weather sealing. These may be getting too "big" for what you want.
    Oly has nice prices on refurbs at GetOlympus Official Site | Digital Cameras, Lenses | Olympus

    My recommendation: either a used GX7 or E-M10. Would give you a very good idea of what MFT can do and if it's right for your needs.

    Best Lenses (there are other good, cheaper options)
    ~35mm: Either Lumix Lecia 15mm f/1.7 or Oly 17mm f/1.8
    ~50mm: Lumix 20mm f/1.7 or Lumix 25mm f/1.7 or Lumix Lecia 25mm f/1.4 or Oly 25mm f/1.8
    ~85mm: Either Lumix 42.5 f/1.7 or Oly 45mm f/1.8

    Budget zooms:
    Lumix 12-32mm f/3.5 to 5.6
    Lumix 35-100mm f/4 to 5.6

    Pro zooms:
    Lumix 12-35mm f/2.8
    Lumix 35-100mm f/2.8
    Oly 12-40mm PRO f/2.8
    Oly 40-150 PRO f/2.8
  14. Stregone

    Stregone Mu-43 Regular

    May 4, 2016
    Manassas, VA, USA
    Thanks for your insights guys. After checking out everything I think I am going to go with my original choice, the em10 mkII. I like the features it has at the price its at. Just need to decide silver or black? :p
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  15. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    Or brown! (special edition.)
  16. Stregone

    Stregone Mu-43 Regular

    May 4, 2016
    Manassas, VA, USA
    I like the look of that one, but it pushes the price up from $600 to $900 :(
    I am thinking black because I can set it next to my canon A-1s and it will blend in and certain people might not notice I have a new camera. :cool:
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  17. jimr.pdx

    jimr.pdx Mu-43 Veteran

    Dec 5, 2010
    near Longview ~1hr from PDX
    Jim R
    I know of 'certain people' who can sense my new-toy thrill even if it's still in transit - good luck containing that part! :D
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  18. Stregone

    Stregone Mu-43 Regular

    May 4, 2016
    Manassas, VA, USA
    Will the yongnuo flashes and triggers (for canon) work on this camera? They are all manual, no e-ttl, so I don't see why not.
  19. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Legend

    Good choice. I like the silver, myself. Looks good with either silver or black lenses, while the black only looks good with black lenses.

    Olympus and Panasonic use standard hotshoes, so any manual flash accessories will work as expected.
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  20. AlanU

    AlanU Mu-43 Veteran

    May 2, 2012
    Whats your budget?

    If your going to compare IQ of your Canon crop sensor to M43 the image quality is actually a lateral move. The M43 can produce very good IQ even though it's a smaller sensor.

    I'd suggest selling your 1dmk3 and help fund the M43 or whatever secondary system. Your 70D is a great video rig with dual pixel technology so as far as AF is concerned in video no M43 can touch that type of non hunting vid AF.

    With the new things coming into the Canon pipeline you can consider getting a 5dmk3 at a reasonable price as the 5dmk4 hits the market.

    There's so much incredible gear these days. Do alot of research and have fun!
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
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