Em5iii upgrade ? Or maybe go with a7r2 and primes?

amit

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
205
Hello there!
I want to upgrade my em10ii body ,mostley for nailing focus when my kids running around,also ,In 1600 iso -I see a major difference in colors and Iq-ai do my best to stay at 200.
I shoot landscapes,family(mine only) and travel ,usually in the 12-45 range, with 7.5 prime.
Sometimes I take the 12-40 zoom and some just with the 45.
The simple way is em5iii or em1ii ,better focus and sensor. Cost of change is about 1000-1200usd.
That makes me think , what if I go for one of the small FF instead , with the smallest primes?

I see that a7r2 is 1400usd,a7ii is 800usd ,and I can get pretty small primes in the range:
Sony 50mm f1.8
Samyang 75mm f1.8
Sony 35mm f1.8
And some more...
What do you guys think? Did any of you try this set?

Another thing, I understand that in order to get to base iso I eill have to use slower shutter speeds, will I have to use a tripod? If so ,I will have to find something else...

Thanks
 

Richantablin

Mu-43 Rookie
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
19
Hello there!
I want to upgrade my em10ii body ,mostley for nailing focus when my kids running around,also ,In 1600 iso -I see a major difference in colors and Iq-ai do my best to stay at 200.
I shoot landscapes,family(mine only) and travel ,usually in the 12-45 range, with 7.5 prime.
Sometimes I take the 12-40 zoom and some just with the 45.
The simple way is em5iii or em1ii ,better focus and sensor. Cost of change is about 1000-1200usd.
That makes me think , what if I go for one of the small FF instead , with the smallest primes?

I see that a7r2 is 1400usd,a7ii is 800usd ,and I can get pretty small primes in the range:
Sony 50mm f1.8
Samyang 75mm f1.8
Sony 35mm f1.8
And some more...
What do you guys think? Did any of you try this set?

Another thing, I understand that in order to get to base iso I eill have to use slower shutter speeds, will I have to use a tripod? If so ,I will have to find something else...

Thanks
been there, done that! I don't think you will like the A7rii. Im trying to sell mine. I find i have equal resolution using the pixel-shift on my G9. If i were to return to FF, it would be w/ S5!
 

amit

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
205
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
been there, done that! I don't think you will like the A7rii. Im trying to sell mine. I find i have equal resolution using the pixel-shift on my G9. If i were to return to FF, it would be w/ S5!
Can you share a bit of the experience please? Thats the reason I posted first in m43 forum.
 

Richantablin

Mu-43 Rookie
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
19
i suppose it depends upon the type of photog u like most. For shallow depth of focus ff is best. But you can achieve w/ one of the f.95 options... albeit mFocus. For travel, street, landscape and city scapes, i always want everything in focus. Also macro/closeup. So to get the same deep DoF i have to close F-stop 2x, negating the advantages of the larger sensor. Furthermore, IBIS is much more effective in G9 and recent OMD cameras! My fav genre is to shoot night city scapes (w/ lights reflected in the water). I have done many side-by-side off a tripod (long exposure) w/ g9 vs a7rii. Both w/ sharp primes. The results are indistinguishable... zoomed in on my 5k monitor. The g9, obviously, shot in hiRez mode.
 

Richantablin

Mu-43 Rookie
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
19
The A7rii has a brilliant sensor for shooting on the go at night. But it is a "pig" compared to G9, in terms of speed-of-functions and also ergo and user interface. Menus are awful... but no worse than Oly
 

Richantablin

Mu-43 Rookie
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
19
for example, when u review a shot on A7, then zoom in, there is a 2 sec delay. May not sound like much... but it is so frustrating. The 3rd gen sonys are improved, but still have a long ways to catch up
 

Richantablin

Mu-43 Rookie
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
19
I also have an EM1ii (beautiful camera) but i'm selling it because i much prefer the g9. The reason why i'm attracted to S5 is that it seems a lot like the g9. It has 96 mp hiRez which also allows much slower shutter speeds than G9. it looks like the AF is dialed in, and of course, brilliant video. Solid IBIS. Best of all its is the same size, w/ a nice compact (slow) 20-60 kit lens. Good price. Free Sigma 45f2.8 if you order this month in USA. Also they extend the warranty to 3 yr. Good luck
 

Richantablin

Mu-43 Rookie
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
19
u mention tripod. Get a good one! (not an item to skimp on) Best values i've found are: Benro, Sirui, and meFoto. Also Rollei. Manfrotto are solid, but more pricey and they don't use the arca-swiss style mounting plate, a superior sys which the others use.
 

amit

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
205
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
u mention tripod. Get a good one! (not an item to skimp on) Best values i've found are: Benro, Sirui, and meFoto. Also Rollei. Manfrotto are solid, but more pricey and they don't use the arca-swiss style mounting plate, a superior sys which the others use.
I mentioned it but in a different way.
I will never carry a tripod ,if tripod is a must with the sony-I will seek something else...
 

damianmkv

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
735
Location
Surrey, England
For me, I’d keep the m43 lenses and get the em1.2

FF isn’t always the best option and the 7ii is approaching 6 years old

I suspect the improved AF of the Olympus will be more than good enough, coupled with the IS
 

Darmok N Jalad

Temba, his aperture wide
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
1,108
Location
Tanagra (not really)
Real Name
Randy
I actually just had a similar conversation in another thread. When it comes to taking pictures of kids on the move, I've come to appreciate the lightest kit I can find. I want something that is easy to carry, since parenting moments always come into play. Bulky gear becomes cumbersome at times, and I would end up not taking it with me. That was the case when I had a D5600. It took nice pictures, but the bulk was too much. I've had to carry tired or "injured" kids back to the home/car--sometimes a pretty long way--so for me, every ounce counts!

I shoot with the EM5.3, which is a very light body and is great with primes and other smaller lenses. For indoors, I use the 25mm 1.8 and 45mm 1.8, and they work pretty well. I usually don't have to push beyond 1600 ISO (often just 1000). I shoot JPG, and the camera handles noise well to produce nice images.

I'd share the shots of the kids, but I don't post those online. I'll just say I do get many great, printable shots, based on feedback from Mrs. Darmok--and isn't that what really matters? :D
 

amit

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
205
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
I actually just had a similar conversation in another thread. When it comes to taking pictures of kids on the move, I've come to appreciate the lightest kit I can find. I want something that is easy to carry, since parenting moments always come into play. Bulky gear becomes cumbersome at times, and I would end up not taking it with me. That was the case when I had a D5600. It took nice pictures, but the bulk was too much. I've had to carry tired or "injured" kids back to the home/car--sometimes a pretty long way--so for me, every ounce counts!

I shoot with the EM5.3, which is a very light body and is great with primes and other smaller lenses. For indoors, I use the 25mm 1.8 and 45mm 1.8, and they work pretty well. I usually don't have to push beyond 1600 ISO (often just 1000). I shoot JPG, and the camera handles noise well to produce nice images.

I'd share the shots of the kids, but I don't post those online. I'll just say I do get many great, printable shots, based on feedback from Mrs. Darmok--and isn't that what really matters? :D
But there is not significant difference with em5iii+ 25+ 45 1.8 vs sony a7c + samyang 45 + 75 1.8 or even with sony 50 and 85 1.8 / a7rii .
The gap is pretty much closed at these FLs with primes only.
Thats what makes me wonder .

By the way , do you let the camera apply noise reduction?
 
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
6,379
Location
Knoxville, TN
I went down that road.

The used prices of the A7ii are very good. I bought one, used it for about 12 days and returned inside a 14 day return window. I just did not care for the way it handled, and the one I had seemed to have an issue with dust on the sensor. Now, the files it produced were very nice. The colors were outstanding. But it just didn't work well for me. YMMV.
 

Biro

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
1,864
Location
Jersey Shore
Real Name
Steve
Amit, I don't know what your budget is but you might want to wait around for Sony to bring out an A7 IV and to drop the price a bit more on the A7 III. I run both an A7 III kit and a micro four-thirds kit. I think they complement each other very nicely.

The A7 III is a nice improvement over the A7 II in terms of response, autofocus and general usability. Video ability is great, too.

But, to the point of your post, if you stick with the smaller Sony and/Samyang primes the FF package can be surprisingly light and compact - especially compared with the E-M1's and the G9. All bets are off when you add zooms. But the Tamron zooms for FE mount are noticeably smaller and lighter than the Sony zooms.

So, have I put my money where my mouth is? Well, I just picked up a refurbished E-M5 III that I will pair with my Pen F along with my compact Zuiko f/1.8 and f/2.0 primes and 12-45mm f/4 PRO zoom. My E-M1's and the rest of my PRO glass are going on the market. They're just too close to modern full frame in terms of size and weight.
 
Last edited:

amit

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
Oct 10, 2019
Messages
205
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Amit, I don't know what your budget is but you might want to wait around for Sony to bring out an A7 IV and to drop a bit price a bit more on the A7 III. I run both an A7 III kit and a micro four-thirds kit. I think they complement each other very nicely.

The A7 III is a nice improvement over the A7 II in terms of response, autofocus and general usability. Video ability is great, too.

But, to the point of your post, if you stick with the smaller Sony and/Samyang primes the FF package can be surprisingly light and compact - especially compared with the E-M1's and the G9. All bets are off when you add zooms. But the Tamron zooms for FE mount are noticeably smaller and lighter than the Sony zooms.

So, have I put my money where my mouth is? Well, I just picked up a refurbished E-M5 III that I will pair with my Pen F along with my compact Zuiko f/1.8 and f/2.0 primes and 12-45mm f/4 PRO zoom. My E-M1's and the rest of my PRO glass are going on the market. They're just too close to modern full frame in terms of size and weight.
I think about the oposite way :) m43 with pro zooms ,ff with small primes .
But seriously, do you own one of those primes? How is the samyang 75mm f1.8 vs the oly 45 f1.8 ?
Sony 50mm 1.8 vs oly 25 1.8?
 

Biro

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
May 8, 2011
Messages
1,864
Location
Jersey Shore
Real Name
Steve
I think about the oposite way :) m43 with pro zooms ,ff with small primes .
But seriously, do you own one of those primes? How is the samyang 75mm f1.8 vs the oly 45 f1.8 ?
Sony 50mm 1.8 vs oly 25 1.8?
I have the Sony 85mm f/1.8 for that range. It's great on the A7 III and, in my opinion, superior optically to the Oly 45mm f/1.8, which I also own.

I have the inexpensive Sony 50mm f/1.8 and it works fine. But remember this is an older lens with older, noisy autofocus. If you can't afford the Sony 55mm f/1.8 then I would suggest the Samyang 45mm f/1.8. A very nice normal field of view and optically it's quite good.

At 35mm, you have a number of choices: The Sony and Samyang f/1.8's, the Sony and Samyang f/2.8's and the Sony, Samyang and Sigma f/1.4's (all larger lenses in this last group). All these manufacturers also offer several options at 28, 24, 20 and 14mm as well. I have the Sony 28mm f/2.0 and recommend it highly.
 

Serhan

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
598
Location
NYC
DOF is much shallower with the Samyang primes w/ FF compared to Olympus... You can stop those lenses to f4-5.6 if you want more dof similar to Olympus, but you need the .95 primes for shallower dof with Olympus.... I have the Oly primes and gave 45mm away after I got Pana 42.5mm 1.7 OIS as I used them with gm5. Oly 25mm is sharp but the bokeh is OK. I tried Mitakon 25mm 0.95 too, not sharp on the sides wide open and bokeh again is OK... On A7R II, I would go for Samyang 35mm 1.8 and 45mm 1.8 instead of Sony versions. Samyang 35mm is a little smaller/cheaper and astigmatism might be better compared to Sony based on early shots. The lens is on preorder now, not many reviews. Samyang 45mm 1.8 has better/faster af then Sony 50mm 1.8. I have Samyang 45/75mm and like them. You need to stop them to f4/5.6 for corner sharpness as the lenses are optimized for size, not for sharpness wide open. When I compared Samyang 45mm with CV 50mm apo f2, the only difference is auto WB which was warmer with Samyang and of course a little wider view... 50mm apo is not fully corrected either eg in comparison to bigger CV 65/110mm lenses. Sony 55mm is a good lens also, more expensive and longer view... I am more 24-28/45-50/75-85mm user... Here is one shot with Samyang 75mm 1.8 wide open camera jpg:

w-DSC01574.jpg
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)


I think about the oposite way :) m43 with pro zooms ,ff with small primes .
But seriously, do you own one of those primes? How is the samyang 75mm f1.8 vs the oly 45 f1.8 ?
Sony 50mm 1.8 vs oly 25 1.8?
I used the EM5 III / EM1 III briefly as I kept m43 gear with its current resale values. I agree with Steve on the size of the cameras... EM5 III with Pana 12-32 is close to P&S size but EM1 II is closer to Sony FF sizes... The IBIS and sensor is improved with newer Oly cameras compared to EM5/EM1 that I have, but the sensor improvement you will get with A7R II is much better esp for landscapes... Sony IBIS is not the best but good enough for most uses eg up to 0.5 sec. I tried Olympus EM5 III (similar to EM1 II IBIS) for longer handheld shots with IBIS, which is good but again up to 1-1.5sec with my Pana zooms as you need a tripod/base support for longer shots... You need to edit raws to get best colors/dynamic range with Sony and you need to edit raws with Olympus to get the best dynamic range... I get more noise with m43 sensors when I push for shadow edits... A7R II af is not the latest/fastest eg eye af is not auto as you need to assign a back button and push that which is fine with not moving subjects but might not be good with running kids (it's been a while I used the A7R II eye af)... I prefer to use A7R III for full time tracking eye af for stills that can keep up with our cat playing with a rope that my wife was swinging in the air (similar to A7 III but A7 III has wider af selection area esp better for portrait orientation eye af)... For video full time eye tracking you need the newer A7C/A7R IV... Sony has apps that you can upload to the A7R II, so landscape shooters kept their camera just for that as the newer Sony cameras do not have that option... Below is A7R II shot stabilized on a rock with a cheap Tamron 28-300mm zoom that I now replaced it with sharper Tamron 28-200mm as a travel lens (which is also a much cheaper than what I paid for Pana 12-35mm+35-100mm f2.8 combo):

wDSC014602i.jpg
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)


Hello there!
I want to upgrade my em10ii body ,mostley for nailing focus when my kids running around,also ,In 1600 iso -I see a major difference in colors and Iq-ai do my best to stay at 200.
I shoot landscapes,family(mine only) and travel ,usually in the 12-45 range, with 7.5 prime.
Sometimes I take the 12-40 zoom and some just with the 45.
The simple way is em5iii or em1ii ,better focus and sensor. Cost of change is about 1000-1200usd.
That makes me think , what if I go for one of the small FF instead , with the smallest primes?

I see that a7r2 is 1400usd,a7ii is 800usd ,and I can get pretty small primes in the range:
Sony 50mm f1.8
Samyang 75mm f1.8
Sony 35mm f1.8
And some more...
What do you guys think? Did any of you try this set?

Another thing, I understand that in order to get to base iso I eill have to use slower shutter speeds, will I have to use a tripod? If so ,I will have to find something else...

Thanks
 
Last edited:

Darmok N Jalad

Temba, his aperture wide
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
1,108
Location
Tanagra (not really)
Real Name
Randy
But there is not significant difference with em5iii+ 25+ 45 1.8 vs sony a7c + samyang 45 + 75 1.8 or even with sony 50 and 85 1.8 / a7rii .
The gap is pretty much closed at these FLs with primes only.
Thats what makes me wonder .

By the way , do you let the camera apply noise reduction?
The EM5.3, 9mm BCL, P14 2.5, 25 1.8, and 45 1.8 weigh less than 2lbs total. The first 2 lenses will slide into a pocket completely unnoticed. The 25 and 45 are a little thicker, but still not bad. I'm just speaking from my own experience in the "what would I do?" sense, so I guess I'm sharing what I'm actually doing and why. :)

Yes, I do let the camera do noise reduction, but I believe I have it set to low, and sharpness set to +1.
 

ac12

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
3,002
Location
SF Bay Area, California, USA
For fast moving kids, you probably need a PDAF camera; EM5-mk3 or EM1-mk2/mk3.

I have no problem shooting at ISO 1600, but if you do, I suggest you follow the old rule. In low light, FAST glass wins. Get a wide/normal prime, to shoot indoors. Maybe a 17/1.8 or 25/1.8. These are a bit more than a stop faster than your 12-40/2.8. I have the 17/1.8. I find the 45/1.8 too long to use indoors.

BUT, fast moving kids in low light, is a combination that will usually result in failure. Even if you can lock focus, your shutter speed may be too slow to freeze them.
When I shoot night sports, I raise the ISO as high as I need to, to be able to shoot at 1/800 sec or faster. Better to have high ISO noise than a blurry pic from using a too slow shutter speed.

The other thing is, there is such a thing as "not enough light." Then, like it or not, you have to bring out the flash. Which is a whole nother thing to learn.
A flash is just another tool for your tool box, not something to be afraid of using.
 
Links on this page may be to our affiliates. Sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
Mu-43 is a fan site and not associated with Olympus, Panasonic, or other manufacturers mentioned on this site.
Forum post reactions by Twemoji: https://github.com/twitter/twemoji
Copyright © 2009-2019 Amin Forums, LLC
Top Bottom