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EM5 or EM1 vs D600 at a dark wedding reception.

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by azmerm, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. azmerm

    azmerm Mu-43 Regular

    38
    Oct 10, 2013
    Phoenix
    Alan Mermelstein
    If anyone that has actually photographed a dim lit wedding reception with an EM5 (or em1), particularly 1st dance, parent dances, garter toss, etc., can let me know if they focused fast enough I would appreciate it. I would use them with an fl600r flash.

    I currently use a D600 but I'm looking to move more lightweight.

    Sample pics would be great!

    Thanks... Alan
     
  2. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    983
    Sep 8, 2012
    Chad
    yeah I did 22 weddings last year with a D600 and EM-5

    when its dim I use the D600 and things like grand entrance bouquet toss etc.. D600 like you asked ;) for me they do not focus quick enough yet again excited to try the EM-1

    basically a 35 and 85 and ultra wide zoom on the D600 and the OLY so far use 75 1.8 12-35 panny 60 macro have a couple others but those are the main ones

    been shooting weddings 13 years now and also trying to move lighter my EM-1 arrives Thur going to go play with it and second shoot see how it does

    no idea how the focus on the EM-1 will be but for me the EM-5 falls short I can shoot a wedding but its scary in a few situations the flash on a D600 and the IR focus of course is a huge bonus and no way will I use that bright red light on clients

    I dont have any want to get rid of my FF want it when I want to isolate the couple etc.. while I can work around with M4/3 its not as easy and the same so one day a mirrorless FF will come out but it will have to focus as good as the D600 ! so might be waiting a couple years or more !

    from this week will have some more but have to edit it so can post and will be having some with the EM-1 soon also :)


    D600
    mike_meredith_02w.


    EM-5
    mike_meredith_04w.


    EM-5
    mike_meredith_03w.
     

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  3. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    983
    Sep 8, 2012
    Chad
    last year one wedding as example

    shot with panny 12-35 2.8
    01.


    shot with Oly 75 1.8
    02.


    shot with oly 75 1.8
    03.



    shot with panny 12-35 2.8 (pretty sure forgot but looks like it)
    04.


    shot with panny 12-35 2.8
    05.


    shot with panny 12-35 2.8
    06.
     

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  4. azmerm

    azmerm Mu-43 Regular

    38
    Oct 10, 2013
    Phoenix
    Alan Mermelstein
    Thanks! Hey...I think I recognize Stonebridge Manor?
     
  5. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    983
    Sep 8, 2012
    Chad
    yeah :) the other couple is at talking stick in that orange sky or whatever they call it lounge on the 15th floor
     
  6. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    983
    Sep 8, 2012
    Chad
    you shoot much around here already ? myself I dont shoot much here but enough :) ahahah

    busy enough with our HappyFish
    I use my name on DWF Chad
    but have been around the biz along time

    I know there is a Alan I think its his name from Moments found ? only Alan name I know :) is that you ?
     
  7. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Gordon
    I have no issues with the EM5 at receptions. I leave the focus assist lamp on. I much prefer the FL50R over the 600R though.

    Gordon
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. F/Stop

    F/Stop Mu-43 Veteran

    451
    Mar 9, 2013
    West Virginia
    Brian Y.
    ive used the em5 at multiple weddings. Most people seem to forget with the 4 or so stops of IS that is available with the em5, that you can stay out of super high iso ranges and rely on shutter speed to get the shot, unless youre trying to freeze motion of course, then yeah, iso is the only way to go or flash.

    I have not had my EM1 in low enough light to challenge the focusing, but if my initial assumptions are correct, it will be improved in low light.
     
  9. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    983
    Sep 8, 2012
    Chad
    yeah the 600 flash is not strong enough small getting ready rooms
    I use a metz and cheetah lights which I love kinda like a super modern QTM Qpax at 320 WS

    I am excited to get the EM-1 and see how it has improved :)
     
  10. azmerm

    azmerm Mu-43 Regular

    38
    Oct 10, 2013
    Phoenix
    Alan Mermelstein
    Chad... That's me!
     
  11. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    983
    Sep 8, 2012
    Chad
    HEY when I get my EM-1 if ya ever want to get together let me know :) might be fun to play with one and the EM-5 if ya have not
    and ya can check out the cheetah for fun even though you are set on your QTM setups I know you use and love :) but fun to see toys :) ahahahhaah

    thought it might have been ya :) ahahhah and I did remember the name :)

    I think we met at a DWF meeting a long time ago and or somewhere else I think ? but could be wrong :) but we have known each other a long time through the forums :)
     
  12. jloden

    jloden Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2012
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    I've not shot weddings specifically, but I did a couple events with really dark ballrooms (no overhead lights, running kids - doesn't get much worse than that :biggrin:).

    Here's the albums from those events - it was all done on D600, D800, and a GH3 (which should be similar to the EM-5) side by side, with the lion's share on the DSLRs.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/30940068@N02/sets/72157634539923830/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/30940068@N02/sets/72157634625875508/

    I don't usually have any complaints about focus with the GH3 or any m4/3 camera I've used, but in the extreme cases I ran into at these events, the D600 and D800 focused more reliably and quickly more often. That being said, I had focus failures on all my cameras throughout the event at various points. An IR focus assist as HappyFish mentioned would have been very welcome.

    The bigger issue in this case besides focus was high ISO - I'm ok with pushing current m4/3 models like the GH3 or EM-5 to ISO 800 or 1600 when IQ is important. Above that is usable, but there is a noticeable degradation in image quality compared to the FF Nikons. That may not be an issue for you, but if you shoot at high ISO a lot, it's something I'd be cognizant of when you have to provide the images to a client.

    My $0.02 is keep the Nikon, add the m4/3 and use it as often as you can without compromising your setup. Personally I find "both" to be the right answer for me, because I can play to the strengths of both systems. If you feel that in your workflow it can replace the FF gear, *then* I'd say get rid of the Nikon.

    Also FWIW, in my experience I have found it works pretty conveniently at times having a setup like D600 + 24-70 combined with say, a GH3 + 7-14 or 75mm to give me diferent FOV for the UWA or tele shots. There the small size, light weight, and features like tilt or swivel screen can supplement the Nikon's strengths like better high ISO, tracking focus, and shallow DoF.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Gordon
    IR focus assist and CDAF focus don't get along. Contrast detect needs visible light because the sensor has an IR cut filter on it. That's why the IR focus assist on the 4/3 flashes don't come on....

    Gordon
     
  14. napilopez

    napilopez Contributing Editor

    826
    Feb 21, 2012
    NYC Area
    Napier Lopez
    I was going to say they're all fine while leaning to the D600, until you said you're using flash. If you're using flash, I can't imagine a reason to worry; you shouldn't be pushing more than ISO 1600, right? You might actually be greatful for M4/3s natively wider DoF.

    The D600 might nevertheless be a better option because when people are moving a lot, you'll probably need to bump up the ISO, and IBIS isn't going to help you. It depends on how dark the venue is exactly, but often times you can't predict these things well and it's better to be safe than sorry. I pretty much only shoot with primes, and some venues I'm fine at ISO 800 at f1.4, others I struggle to shoot at 6400. You might want that extra security of the FF sensor.

    Still, so far it's never been an issue for me. Most things that move, I'll shoot with flash, and if they don't IBIS + fast lenses actually gives me a bit more oomph from the M4/3 kit. This depends highly on what your style and kit is made up of though, as well as your clients' expectations. I also generally inform my clients that I prefer not use flash when possible (usually when talking about my "style" and such) because I don't like the way I simply don't like the way it looks(part of that is probably skill related). So far all of my clients have been very happy, but it all depends.

    Some samples. The first image is ISO 1600, the second 3200, and the rest 6400. All with the 25mm f1.4 or 45mm f1.8 wide open, shutter speeds ranging from 1/8-1/25. Obviously, it was quite dark!

    Please note, since I have a bit of a stylized way of processing my images, these aren't representative of maximum resolution performance; they were processed RAW in LR5 where I did a little noise reduction, exposure fixing (a few of these were actually pulled up), and color correction, then exported to 75% quality jpeg, and then reprocessed in Exposure 5, where I added artificial grain to varying extents. Not exactly the most IQ-retaining workflow =P. In some of these I could have pulled the ISO lower and rely on IBIS, but I was shooting too quickly to remember.

    Of course, to some of you, this sort of image quality may be unacceptable, which is a fair opinion. But for photos that were just going to go on facebook, I personally think it's reasonable. Definitely seen worse, lol.

    ISO 1600 - 25mm - 1/13
    10322757326_61ac50bbce_z.
    TJ-4 by napilopez, on Flickr

    ISO 3200 - 25mm - 1/8
    10322737525_6582a782a5_z.
    TJ-7 by napilopez, on Flickr

    ISO 6400 - 25mm - 1/25
    10322724735_acf0d42c38_z.
    TJ-32 by napilopez, on Flickr

    ISO 6400 - 25mm - 1/15
    10322877493_d16e1c462a_z.
    TJ-25 by napilopez, on Flickr

    ISO 6400 - 45mm - 1/15
    10322672296_244ab1d851_z.
    TJ-66 by napilopez, on Flickr

    ISO 6400 - 25mm - 1/20
    10322631924_f9fe01a932_z.
    TJ-35 by napilopez, on Flickr

    ISO 6400 - 25mm - 1/20
    10322657056_b4ae16a2f7_z.
    TJ-30 by napilopez, on Flickr
     

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  15. jloden

    jloden Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2012
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    I know - I was referring to the D600/D800 I was also using at the event. :smile:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    I'm with "HappyFish" on this one. In my corner of the universe dim reception rooms are like dark caves. Some flash and AF assist is needed, and the Nikon flash/AF assist runs rings around the E-M5, which I did try out.

    In venues that have higher ambient light levels the ยต4/3 would be fine.
     
  17. napilopez

    napilopez Contributing Editor

    826
    Feb 21, 2012
    NYC Area
    Napier Lopez
    For what it's worth, I've had noticeably better experience focusing at night with the E-M5(aka never had provlems) than a 5d MKII or D7000, although I absolutely never use AF assist with any cam, so idk whether that would tip things in favor of the DSLRs. In the above images, where tou can tell it's clearly very dark, I didn't have the camera hunt on me once. Also note however that I pretty much always use center focus and recompose with AF lenses. Letting the camera select its own focus point may yield different results.

    I don't think I've used more modern DSLR bodies with better focusing systems in quite as dim situations, so can't compare those. Likewise, I've also heard that the E-M1 focuses better in dim light than the E-M5, but have no experience.
     
  18. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    983
    Sep 8, 2012
    Chad
    do you have a flash on your canon though ? that IR beam is what helps out :)
    bare camera its a flip the coin depending on what you are shooting
    IMHO once you put a flash on have focus assist with a DSLR nothing touches it for speed and lock on and the speed thing getting that moment dancing and stuff is where my OMD falls behind :) hoping the EM-1 is a bit quicker :) at least for me :) I wont put that red beam of the OMD on people cause its more like a bright red light which I dont like but it does work :)

    those posed shots I posted the OMD focused for how dark it was with my DSLR no flash it was quicker :) but they were not moving :)
     
  19. napilopez

    napilopez Contributing Editor

    826
    Feb 21, 2012
    NYC Area
    Napier Lopez
    That's probably why then; I had a flash with me but never used it!
     
  20. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    983
    Sep 8, 2012
    Chad
    yeah bare against bare the OMD does quite well put a flash on a DSLR and its good bye :)

    got my EM-1 playing with it a bit going to try to go shoot with a buddy tomorrow maybe ? so busy not sure I can get away but might try for a bit :)