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EM1 Mki or ii

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by Guy Roberts, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. Guy Roberts

    Guy Roberts Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    Oct 27, 2018
    I retire at the end of the year and I am thinking of upgrading my e5.
    I was tempted to switch format to the likes of Sony or Fujifilm, (sensor envy) but I have a number of expensive 4/3 lenses: 7-14 f4; 14-35 f2; 50-200 swd; 50 macro; 14-54 mkii, which would be made redundant.
    Also, after a lot of research, I do not think that there will be any great improvement in image quality, except perhaps at high iso's which I don't use anyway as my main interest is landscape.
    I am after portability as we want to travel and we do enjoy walking so backpack friendly is important. My current holiday setup is the e5 with the 14-54 mkii, the other lenses are just too bulky to take travelling, for me anyway.
    Here's the question: do I go for the EM1 mki or mkii?
    Both will work with the 4/3 lenses, although I am looking at getting the 12-40 f2.8 pro as well, mainly for travelling.
    The mkii with that lens is now $1,999 but a good used mki body is about $500 and the lens $900, so $600 less, which could be another lens.
    The mkii is 20mp and has sensor shift for 50/80mp images which is tempting.
    Both got great reviews, but the mkii is supposed to be a big improvement on the mki.
    Any thoughts anyone?
     
  2. Susan G.

    Susan G. Mu-43 Regular

    34
    Apr 4, 2016
    I upgraded from my e5 to the Mark II just over a year ago. I can't compare the M1 with the MII, but I am very happy with my camera. Size and weight were a big consideration for me, too. I have a number of lenses, but the 12-40 f2.8 is by far the most versatile, and it is on my camera most of the time.
     
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  3. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    If your main shooting is landscape, get the E-M1 II. It's a much better camera. ISO 64 Low, better long exposure noise, hi-res mode.
     
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  4. Santa

    Santa Mu-43 Veteran Subscribing Member

    322
    Oct 13, 2016
    Tennessee
    Tom Staggs
    I have neither of the cameras but do have the lens mentioned and it is excellent and very useful in a lot of conditions. When you decide on the camera I would check the buy and sell of this forum because I did not pay that much for that lens Good prices on cameras too. You just have to be patient and they will come up. I have had very good success while buying multiple lenses.
     
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  5. So I made the decision a year ago to purchase a used EM1 Mark i instead of spending big bucks on the Mark II. I don’t regret it. I use the camera for my professional work. It is wonderful. For me the extra MP from 16 to 20 aren’t that sustantial. I am producing 20x24 to 30x40 prints for my clients with this camera. If I owned a Mark II I may use the sensor shift resolution from time to time - but I kind of doubt it - I don’t do any studio product shot work any more, and that is more or less what that mode would be limited to.

    BTW - before you go and spend money on new lenses, buy an adapter. It only has to be a no name one and you will probably find your 4/3 lenses AF speed is totally adequate. That’s what I found. I was sceptical, but this summer purchase a used 11-22 f2.8/3.5 lens with mm4 adapter use for $200.00. Wow - that lens is great image quality and focused perfectly fine for all of my paid portrait work this fall. In image quality, I doubt you will find any difference between the 12-40 and your current 14-54 —— and definitely it will be inferior to your 14-35f2. Your 50-200 even has advantages in reach over the 40-150 f2.8 and does not lag that much behind in image quality or AF speed. Focus speed will not be much different than you are used to with your E-5. I would suggest that at least you get an adapter and try the lenses before giving up on them. Don’t go by stats or what others say. But only try them on the E-M1 mark I or Mark II. The results won’t please you on the other models.


    All the best in your decisions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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  6. PakkyT

    PakkyT Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 20, 2015
    New England
    I went from the E-3 to a refurb'd E-M1 and used my 12-60 SWD and 50-200mm (non-SWD) lenses on it exclusively for about a year before getting my first m43 lenses. I was quiet satisfied with the transition.

    My one and only complain really is that the E-M1 mk 1 only has horizontal PDAF focus points. The mk II implemented cross type PDAF points. What this means with your 4/3rds glass is that sometimes the camera will have a bit of trouble focusing on certain scenes without enough vertical features. It isn't a bit deal and you get used to sometimes having to give your camera a little "steering wheel" type rotation 15 degrees or so to get the sensor to "see" something to focus on, then straighten up and shoot. I find this more so on the 12-60 rather than the 50-200. Funny thing is I recalled it not being an issue for me, but this past summer after not having used the 12-60 for many many months, I decided to take it on a vacation with me and having forgotten about that I was a little surprised at how often I had to revert to the old steering wheel trick. Still normally not an issue unless you quickly need to grab a shot and the camera won't focus. So that is a long winded way to say one major feature upgrade of the mk II over the mk I is the cross point PDAF if you continue to shoot with your 4/3s lenses. That said, I am still using my mk I because the mk II is still well out of my price range and still use those two 4/3rds lenses on it with good results. Well prices and I now shoot a lot more m43s lenses where this isn't an issue.


    One thing. It has been discussed in these forums that some third party adapters have been found to be ever so slight "off" as to the mount being parallel to the sensor. Normally you won't notice is on most lenses, but on ultra wide ones (the 9-18mm 4/3rds lens was one that was discussed) you may then notice this with one side of the frame bring in focus while the other side is a bit soft (or top to bottom). Since the original poster uses the 7-14mm, this would be the one lens that might require a genuine Oly adapter. Also note none of the generic third party adapters are weather/dust resistance while his 4/3rds lenses are, so again the Oly adapter would maintain weather/dust sealing at the mount points.
     
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  7. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    For you, possibly. However, keep in mind that the OP said they use the camera for landscapes, and the hi-res mode is, IMO, fantastic for that.

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  8. 50orsohours

    50orsohours Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Oct 13, 2013
    Portland Oregon
    I’d say that if landscape is your forte, get a camera with hi res in it.
     
  9. Guy Roberts

    Guy Roberts Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    Oct 27, 2018
    Lovely shots ijm, and I was very interested in the ones with moving water. I thought it might give a nd filter effect, and it seems to. Nice.
     
  10. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    The key to your question would be if you ALWAYS carry a sturdy tripod with you backpacking with your E-5. If you do, then the E-M1 II would be worth your while with the Hi-Res. The Hi-res mode on the E-M1 II is not hand holdable so you need to keep that in mind. 50/80MP requires a different kind of skill set, less to no wind situation, little to no ground vibration and have good shot discipline to get the maximum quality. This is also true with the Nikon D850, Sony A7RIII, Nikon Z7 and Canon EOS5DSR. A friend of mine who shoots and print gallery big with his Canon EOS 5DSR had to buy a bigger and heavier tripod (about 20lbs) to replace his less than beefy one that he used with his Canon 6D to get an image he likes so he could sell them in his gallery. So with 50/80MP, it's not the kind of run of the gun type shooting anymore, which you can somewhat get away with only 16/20MP. And do you need to print gallery big all the time? 16 and even 20MP is enough for 30x40 prints; though that's not that big compared to gallery prints which are much bigger and for which the 50/80MP will benefit the most.

    Whether the E-M1 II is supposed to be a big improvement over the Mk 1 is subject to debate. In terms of sports AF performance, it is a big improvement because it has cross type PDAF sensors and other sports related features like Pro Capture which I think you can now use with all m43 and 4/3 lenses. But the E-M1 is no slouch either. In terms of noise and DR performance, it is marginal over the Mk 1 @ ISO 100 (ISO 64 with Mk II) and @ ISO6400 where it excels marginally better than the Mk 1. Only when you can utilize the Mk II's Hi-Res is where your DR and noise performance can exceed most of the medium format and FF bodies you can buy today. But this again comes with certain restrictions. Restrictions that a FF body does not have.

    The Mk II is a lot of money, more so than the new Fuji XT-3 (26MP) with a starting price of only $1499.95 and provides more bang for the buck. Fuji lenses are superb and sharp, especially the 18-55, and they are not much more heavier and bigger than the m43 counterparts either. I know of 2 local commercial and award winning master photographers who used to shoot Nikon full frame downsized to a Fuji.

    When the Mk ii was introduced in 2016, it was probably the only game in town that offered a host of impressive features found in a mirrorless. In 2018, there are other bodies that offer more and better features for less price. The reason I mentioned Fuji is that, it achieves a balance of both portability and image quality, especially with the XT-3.

    In conclusion, you need to assess what you are looking for in a body and lens combination. If you get a E-M1 type camera (whichever model you can afford), it's probably best that you trade in all your 4/3 lenses to lock in their value and select the lenses that you are going to need the most for your hiking needs. The E-M1 is tempting because it offers good value for the money and you can apply that to PRO lenses like the 12-40 Pro and the 35-100 f/2.8 II (Panasonic) if size is your priority. Then you can opt for a 30mm Macro or a 60Macro and the 7-14 Pro later on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
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  11. Guy Roberts

    Guy Roberts Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    Oct 27, 2018
    Thanks for the thought provoking reply David. I have considered trading all my gear in and starting again, hence the thought of upsizing the sensor.
    Your print size comment is on the money, and I have only printed large twice for personal use, both from the e5, (12mp) both on canvass which is forgiving, and both hung on our walls and they look fine, but definitely not gallery size.
    I also sold 2 photographs through Fine Art America at 30x15 and 24x12 both on photo paper with no complaints. So the 4/3 sensor is ample for my needs.
    I had an em1 (used) for a short while, but a gust of wind blew it and tripod off a cliff, so I have had a little experience with it, but not much.
    When travelling by air I do not take a tripod and I find the e5’s ibis does a great job. But for local trips by car I take a tripod.
     
  12. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    Guy, I used to own an E-5 with a number of 4/3 lenses alongside my E-P5 with a number of m43 lenses until this year where I traded in the E-5 and lenses for a Panasonic ZS-100 plus some store credit. That's a lovely 1" sensor camera with a 5 axis IBIS and beats my ex-E-5 pants down in DR and noise in a tiny package -- LOL. I loved the output of the E-5 with the right lenses, but it just kept getting less and less car travel to absolutely zero air travel, while my E-P5 gets all the air travel and car travel. It's way smaller, lighter and more tech. The 5 axis IBIS on all the current m43 bodies trumps the 2 axis on the E-5 and that mitigates needing a tripod for most shots except the slowest shutter speeds. And my shooting style is more of a street photography style, discreet and reportage so I too don't carry a tripod when travelling by air. In fact, I just came back from a 3 weeks trip in New Mexico and hiking on the Sandia mountains, San Francisco and Los Angeles and only use my new ZS-100. What a relief from that heavy brick of the E-5. The E-P5 PRO lenses combo can also be a brick compared to my ZS-100 with a 25mm - 250mm 35mm eqv zoom range, but my m43 primes and fast m43 zooms have better edge acuity than the ZS-100. Still, I am amazed what you can get from a small camera package and will probably combine my ZS-100 with my E-P5 and a 25mm f/1.4 prime and a 9mm fisheye body cap lens as my travel kit in a very TSA friendly camera bag in my next year's 3 weeks air travel.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
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  13. bassman

    bassman Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 22, 2013
    New Jersey
    The Bassman
    I own both the E-M1 and E-M1.2. The Mark II is clearly better in every way: it’s faster handling and focusing, it has better IS and Hi-Res; the swivel lcd is great for landscape; much better battery life; etc. But I have no compunction about using the E-M1 frequently. I took both to Africa and used both with good results.

    Only you can decide if the price differential is worthwhile.

    I owned the 50-200/2.8-3.5 for a couple of years and it worked fine with the E-M1.

    For a landscape kit, it’s hard to beat what I’m carrying this afternoon : E-M1.2, 9-18/4-5.6, 12-35/2.8, 35-100/2.8. It weights about 3 pounds and fits in a ridiculously small bag.
     
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  14. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Hi Guy,

    Yes, the hi-res mode does effectively act as a 3-stop ND filter, since it combines 8 images. I will regularly use the hi-res mode in combination with traditional ND filters to achieve even longer exposure times (i.e. multi-minute exposures), which lead to dramatic skies, silky-smooth water, etc.

    The E-M1 II's hi-res mode is by far the best of any camera they've implemented it in, and it's a very handy tool for landscape shooters IMO.
     
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  15. Bushboy

    Bushboy Mu-43 Veteran

    312
    Apr 22, 2018
    NZ
    Charlie
    Cracking shots Ian.
    Makes me wanna try that 50million pixel mode!
    Regarding the topic, get the latest tech if you can afford it.
    No one ever regretted buying the best.
     
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  16. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    I have both the E-M1 and E-M1 MK2 and have used 4/3s lenses. Someone mentioned trading in your 4/3s lenses to lock in their value. I'm guessing the 4/3s lens are not going to go down much in value - resale prices have pretty stable for more than a year.

    My choice would be to get the MK2 as the camera has a lot of small upgrades over the original, if you can easily afford it. Used MK2 in great shape are available for less then $900 while the MK1 are less than 1/2 that. To me the focusing with 4/3s lenses on the MK2 is a worthwhile upgrade.
     
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  17. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    Used Mk 2 available for less than $900 US. I like to know where you see this. Used prices for Mk 2 hovers around $1300 to $1500 USD (from Ex to Like New). I've never seen one (E-M1 II) pristine in great shape for less than $900 US.
     
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  18. Reflector

    Reflector Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 31, 2013
    The E-M1II also lets you do a 1EV 5 shot bracket at 60fps, handheld. For when you have all the light in the world and a scene with a lot of shadows and highlights you can get one of the most capable cameras for doing a bracketed-stack. 1EV with 5 shots and if you meter only the least exposed frame to preserve highlights will give you more than 16x the exposure of a single exposure. 16x the effective light gathered meaning you have the equivalent of 4 exposures on a 135 format sensor.

    You just have to work in post. Only the G9 also lets you do it at 60fps handheld.
     
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  19. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Will it? When I enable exposure bracketing via the button on the top plate, it automatically engages the high burst mechanical shutter, but you cannot change the setting to allow the electronic shutter.

    How are you engaging the electronic shutter along with exposure bracketing?
     
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