EM1 ii VERY difficult (destructive) lens removal. Repair cost?

Toddster

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I recently purchased a used (out of warranty) EM1 ii with a 12-100 for a very good price. The camera and lens look to be in as new condition. The only problem is that the only lens that works well with the camera mount is the one that I purchased it with. The 12-100 mounts tight but seems to mount and un-mount without damage. Other lenses (both Olympus and Panasonic) grind very hard as they are unmounted. Some feel too tight going on (warning me not to mount them) but others mount without problem but then the un-mounting grinds to the point of being destructive, leaving metal shavings in the mount. I have tested enough to know that this is not lens specific but I am unwilling to keep trying lenses to see what will work. Clearly I have a problem that needs fixed

While I love the combination of the EM1 ii and the 12-100 I am not willing to leave it permanently mounted. So... I guess I need a repair on this new to me camera.

I'm guessing that the repair is a mount replacement? Looking to the members here for advice. Is this a send it to Olympus situation? If so what find of cost can I expect? Other options?
 
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I recently purchased a used (out of warranty) EM1 ii with a 12-100 for a very good price. The camera and lens look to be in as new condition. The only problem is that the only lens that works well with the camera mount is the one that I purchased it with. The 12-100 mounts tight but seems to mount and un-mount without damage. Other lenses (both Olympus and Panasonic) grind very hard as they are unmounted. Some feel too tight going on (warning me not to mount them) but others mount without problem but then the un-mounting grinds to the point of being destructive, leaving metal shavings in the mount. I have tested enough to know that this is not lens specific but I am unwilling to keep trying lenses to see what will work. Clearly I have a problem that needs fixed

While I love the combination of the EM1 ii and the 12-100 I am not willing to leave it permanently mounted. So... I guess I need a repair on this new to me camera.

I'm guessing that the repair is a mount replacement? Looking to the members here for advice. Is this a send it to Olympus situation? If so what find of cost can I expect? Other options?
It looks like the mount on the MII is just held on with 4 screws. Have you checked to see if the screws are tight. Also check to see if the release pin moves properly without a lens on. I don’t know what is under the lens mounting plate, but it is possible that it had been removed and not reinstalled correctly.
 

Toddster

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Thanks Harvey. The screws seem to be tight and the pin moves fine. It's those four screws that give me hope that this would be an inexpensive repair:redface:
 

Mack

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Sounds like it got dropped and bent someplace. Maybe why it got peddled too.

You might be able to put a small piece of glass over the mount, with the locking pin held down, and see if it is flush all the way around and not high someplace where you could slip a piece of paper or cellophane between the glass and the mount indicating it is bent. Lens would be tougher, but given other lenses are tight it is likely the camera's mount.
 

Toddster

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The mounting screws are recessed a bit, not flush All four seem to be even and tight.

I tried the recommendation from @Mack and I think he is on to something. Placing a piece of glass over the mount there is some variance in how well the glass 'seals' against the mount. Not visible to my eye but when checking with a thin slip of paper some areas seal tight while in other spots the paper can slip in between the glass and the mount. Tried the same thing on my Panasonic and there was no variance at all. Clearly something has happened to this camera.

So it looks like the camera probably needs the mount replaced. So now I'm back to how is the best way to go about the repair? I'd like some concept of cost for the repair in deciding if I need to try and pursue a remedy through the seller. Does anyone have experience with a similar repair?
 

Egregius V

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I sent an E-M5 II out for repair, thinking the mount needed to be replaced. I got a quote online and a revised quote when Olympus received the camera for evaluation. The repair rates were fixed, depending on whether the repair is cosmetic or more involved - regardless of time required. They determined that they had to replace the IBIS and make some cosmetic repairs also - so the second level of repair cost. I paid under $200.
 

Mack

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You may be able to find a bayonet mount on eBay. Given that some parts there may be damaged, who knows what might be good or not if not new.

There is a test you can perform if you print out the Lensgrid pattern in the freeware MTF Mapper. https://sourceforge.net/projects/mtfmapper/

With MTF Mapper, you can see how bad the lens or mount may be if the map field isn't flat and perhaps distorted a lot more on one side or corner. You could try the 12-100mm on your Panny to determine if the lens is out of whack too.

The repair guys use an auto-collimator to sort this stuff out quickly as the exit collimated beam through the lens and bounced back off the sensor must also exit perfectly over the entrance beam and not skewed off to one side, but aligning a mess takes time. You can do it with MTF Mapper, but it is more trial and error and days slower given that you may also see lens abnormalities not related to being non-parallel in optical and sensor alignment.
 

Keeth101

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Without knowing what happened to the camera I'd be trying the return for full refund route, if that is possible.
Totally agree. If it's had a bang big enough to distort the lens mount who knows what else may have been knocked out of alignment or damaged ..... and you'll only find that out the more you use it or sometime in the future!
 

Toddster

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Thanks to everyone for the continuing advice. I hadn't thought about the lens being damaged.

@Mack I downloaded the software you suggested. I was able to do the set up and get the alignment within tolerance without too much difficulty. The only problem is my understanding of the results.

I first tested the em1 with the 12-100, then, as you suggested put the 12-100 on my G85. To my untrained eye the results on the G85 look better but not stellar. For comparison I tested a Panasonic 12-60 and an Olympus 45 on the G85. Those results make the 12-100 look great! I simply don't know enough about this to tell what is acceptable and what is not.

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Orientation was within 0.14 except for the 45mm. That pitch was off by .52 and my battery was getting too low to straighten it out.
 

retiredfromlife

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I seem to remember on another forum someone who purchased the Panasonic 100-400 hot their EM1 lens mount adjusted because the lens was too tight
There seems to be some differences in lens mounts as well. I cant fit some manual lens adaptors on my G85 as they are far too tight, but fit easily on my Oly cameras

If you cant return it I would send it in for repair soon in case repairs get harder after JIP take over
 

Mack

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The more even the color in the MTF Mapper the better, but it is sensitive too. I need to download the newest one as mine is old and the Help file may have changed. I used it when my E-M1X fell off a door hook and hit the carpet with a thud, but seems okay according to the MTF Mapper - but the thing is a brick.

You didn't mention what focal length setting or f/stop used, and that can skew the results a lot.

Might want to look at the image "Blur" reviews off the 12-200mm blur map on https://www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/olympus/12-100mm-f4-is-pro-m.zuiko-digital-ed/review/ Click on the upper right "Lab Test Results" to open a "Blur" unit map with some sliders See how yours compares to theirs at the whatever f/stop that you can set with their slider. Of course, theirs will be better given the differing setups and they are a bit looser on the Y-axis blur units than yours too, but it seems to show f/5.6 would be the optimum for that lens f/stop and the best focal length seems to be 35mm for the best test.

Look at pages 24-25 in the MTF Mapper Help file. It shows you the effect of the chart being tilted and how to differentiate between the target being tilted or the camera lens at fault with the Lens Profile image. There might be a bit of de-centering or lens tilt shown with the 12-100 given it seems to show red in same corners between the two cameras, but could be your target is tilted too. The two bottoms off the G85 and different lenses seems to show a slight tilt to the bayonet on left-right sides, but it's likely so small anyone would pass it over. The bottom 45mm map seems very flat overall and good. The 45mm f/1.8 blur map looks really nice on the imaging-resources.com website at f/4-f/5.6.

Don't know how much of a bayonet un-flatness you have, but can you tighten one of the screws a bit to maybe make it flatter so the glass plate is more flush with your feeler gauges? Fwiw, the manufacturers often shim the bayonet or the casting to the body that holds that mount to make it parallel to the sensor. Some even provided adjusting screws in back of the body plate so you can move the bayonet forward or back before you tighten it down, and I see they do the same for the sensor holders in the bodies now too.

I have used high-molybdenum content paste on lens mounts to help sticky ones, or some 3M Silicon Paste which might be better around rubber seals. Just a small brush tip's worth often works wonders. My Nikons often have brass shards (Chrome has worn off some.) in the lower well area behind the bayonet and I blot them up with the sticky pens that most use to get stuff off their sensors, but mine just left a smudge instead on the sensor so it gets used to pick out brass lens bits now and no sensor use.
 
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Depending on how much cash I had in the deal, I would possibly remove the mount, get a piece of 1000 grit wet/dry sand paper, put some oil on it, lay it on a piece of thick glass or thick mirror, and hand polish the mount a little to remove any burrs that may be scratching the lens bayonet. The clean the mount good liquid soap and water. Dry it good and reinstall the mount.
 
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I recently purchased a used (out of warranty) EM1 ii with a 12-100 for a very good price. The camera and lens look to be in as new condition. The only problem is that the only lens that works well with the camera mount is the one that I purchased it with. The 12-100 mounts tight but seems to mount and un-mount without damage. Other lenses (both Olympus and Panasonic) grind very hard as they are unmounted. Some feel too tight going on (warning me not to mount them) but others mount without problem but then the un-mounting grinds to the point of being destructive, leaving metal shavings in the mount. I have tested enough to know that this is not lens specific but I am unwilling to keep trying lenses to see what will work. Clearly I have a problem that needs fixed

While I love the combination of the EM1 ii and the 12-100 I am not willing to leave it permanently mounted. So... I guess I need a repair on this new to me camera.

I'm guessing that the repair is a mount replacement? Looking to the members here for advice. Is this a send it to Olympus situation? If so what find of cost can I expect? Other options?
Todd, for this kind of problem, I would definitely only have the camera serviced by Olympus.

Self-service could easily render the camera unusable.

After servicing, the camera will be as new.
 

Toddster

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Thanks to everyone for the help and advice!

I'm convinced that the camera mount is damaged and the lens is perfectly fine. I don't believe that the damage was from a drop but rather a rather careless mounting attempt of a different lens. Clearly the mount on the camera needs replaced. So it's off to Olympus for repair. Ultimately I will wind up spending more than I wanted but from what I understand of the Olympus service the camera will be returned with everything in spec.

Just for the record; on my way home from posting the package to Olympus I got an email from camerarepair.com for a repair at a fraction of the Olympus cost. $116 vs. $320!!! I guess that's what I get for being impatient. Oh well. At least with Olympus I know that everything is 100%.
 

Mack

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I was cleaning off my computer drive and ran across this image. Might be an old post here someplace that I cannot find since the JPEG Search doesn't work in the forums anymore.

It's an MTF using the above MTF Mapper software. I tested the Pen-F, E-M1 Mark II, and the E-M1X with the same 300mm f/4 Pro lens. I didn't hard-case the 300mm in the car and it rolled off the rear car seat (Not attached to camera.) and hit the tripod on the floorboard. I heard it and didn't like the sound of it so I put it on the camera to see what became of it.

It looks to be in good shape on the E-M1X body and the Pen-F both. The E-M1X must have some issues but they are minimal as I don't see it, but they may be there if Iook harder (I don't intend too!). I'll just use the E-M1X as it seems to have a better flat-field map and it focuses a lot better than the E-M1 Mark II too.

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djtaylor7

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Just for the record; on my way home from posting the package to Olympus I got an email from camerarepair.com for a repair at a fraction of the Olympus cost. $116 vs. $320!!! I guess that's what I get for being impatient. Oh well. At least with Olympus I know that everything is 100%.
Who knows, with Olympus they might just swap it for a new one, if there is an underlying problem.
 

Toddster

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Camera returned to me today. The repair is good, they replaced the mount and the grip.

However, they did not clean the sensor (or replace the missing flash cover). I just got off the phone with Olympus and the representative agreed that the service should have included a sensor cleaning. She checked the paperwork and said the paperwork indicated that my service did include a full cleaning. She then put me on hold while she checked with "the corporate office". After a few minutes she came back and said that "the included sensor cleaning is only a gentle cleaning because the sensor is so sensitive, okay". Hmm... I would have thought Olympus of all people would be able to do a through cleaning. She stated that she would send me an email on how to provide them with pictures so that they can determine a resolution.

Camera is fixed and I am quite happy with that. Just seems to be less stellar service than others have reported from Olympus in the past.
 
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