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E-PL5.... AA filter, or not?

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by billgreen, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. billgreen

    billgreen Mu-43 Top Veteran

    651
    Apr 4, 2012
    Herradura de Rivas, Costa Rica
    Bill Green
    Sorry if I've missed something but I've been researching this question for days and can't seem to find a definitive answer. Does, or does not, the EPL5 have an AA filter? Seems everyone is guessing or supposing. The camera has been out for a while it looks like someone would have figured it out by now. :confused: Anyone?
     
  2. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    Olympus never officially said, and no one has taken apart the camera to find out.

    In my opinion, images from the E-PL5 are indistinguishable from E-M5, so I believe that the E-PL5 has an AA filter, albeit a very light one.
     
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  3. billgreen

    billgreen Mu-43 Top Veteran

    651
    Apr 4, 2012
    Herradura de Rivas, Costa Rica
    Bill Green
    I just got an EPL5, replacing the GX-1. I can see a very obvious difference in the RAW files. The EPL5 is clearly sharper.
     
  4. DoofClenas

    DoofClenas Who needs a Mirror!

    943
    Nov 9, 2012
    Traverse City, MI
    Clint
    I just posted an image with the EPM2 (same sensor) and the Olympus 7-14 SHG (handheld, used it only as a test to try out the MMF3)...The image was a shot of a light fixture that has a tight perforated grid...the grid showed up with a moire effect...which is the first time I've ever taken a shot and had to deal with it (My e-5 never had those issues)...it was easy to remove in LR4 (even though after second glance, it appears a though i missed some). If this sensor has an AA, it has to be very, very weak.
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  5. DoofClenas

    DoofClenas Who needs a Mirror!

    943
    Nov 9, 2012
    Traverse City, MI
    Clint
    here's the link to the original file that displays what I was referring to better, click on the o (for original at the top of the page).
    Light Fixture
     
  6. Agent00soul

    Agent00soul Mu-43 Regular

    77
    Jan 22, 2010
    I read somewhere that somoeone claimed they had disassembled the cameras and found out that neither the E-PM2 nor the E-M5 has an AA filter.
     
  7. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    I've done reasonably extensive tests with my OM-D & E-PL5 with them on a solid tripod, anti-shake on, IS off, remote release, resolution target, RAW & JPG, 20/1.7, 45/1.8, 50/1.4 75/1.8 all at various apertures...and there is no difference in resolution between the bodies. I have also seen moire in images from both bodies.
     
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  8. PaulGiz

    PaulGiz Mu-43 Veteran

    231
    Jan 3, 2013
    Rhode Island, USA
    Wait...an AA filter is a piece of hardware? I just assumed AA was applied (via software) on writing file, like you do when rasterizing a linework file in Photoshop.

    You learn something new every day.

    P.
     
  9. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
  10. LovinTheEP2

    LovinTheEP2 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    619
    Feb 15, 2011
    Toronto
    All "formal" indications out of Olympus Europe is that there isn't an AA filter. Now was Olympus Asia isn't willing to formally release the information is very odd as any competitor would know for sure by disassembling a unit and looking at filters infront of the sensor.
     
  11. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    No. There is an AA filter. Olympus Europe issued an updated statement saying as much.

    E-PM2, E-PL5 and E-M5 all have an AA filter, and from the samples I've shot, they're identically strong (weak).
     
  12. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    I've seen aliasing effects in images from the E-M5, E-PL5, and E-PM2. All seem to have the same sensor and AA filter.

    As I said above, Olympus has never made a statement directly to the public. There is the blogger who you linked to that claimed he got a statement from Olympus saying one thing and then saying another, but never was there an official Olympus statement on the matter.

    I directly asked Olympus USA about this and got no reply.


    I'd love to see the evidence if anyone has published any. I strongly doubt that Olympus left the AA filter out of these cameras, and I'm glad my E-PM2 doesn't suffer from more aliasing effects than it currently manifests.
     
  13. slothead

    slothead Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 14, 2012
    Frederick, MD
    I certainly don't know for sure, but I can't imagine any consumer camera NOT having an anti-aliasing filter on it. When I bought my D800, I avoided getting the D800E because I did not want to be forced to post-process, not that you would have to, but you would have a much better chance of having to.
     
  14. slothead

    slothead Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 14, 2012
    Frederick, MD
    Seeing aliasing effects doesn't tell you anything because it is an analog effect - meaning there are degrees of aliasing that the filter may or may not correct for.
     
  15. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    Aliasing occurs in the analog to digital (A/D) conversion when out of band signals (set by the sampling rate of the system) are not stopped by a low pass filter (anti-aliasing (AA)). AA filters don't correct anything, they attenuate signal. How much moire occurs depends on the subject being shot, the pixel pitch of the sensor (this sets the sampling rate in a digital camera) and the cut off frequency of the AA filter.

    Moire patterns can be created in analogue interference patterns, but that not whats going on in a camera. Leica doesn't use AA filters in their M series cameras.
     
  16. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    What I meant is that those 3 cameras seem to have a similar level of per pixel sharpness and susceptibility to aliasing. Seems unlikely that Olympus would design 3 cameras around the same time with the same sensor, same results, and one uses different AA filters othan the others.
     
  17. MikeR_GF1

    MikeR_GF1 Mu-43 Veteran

    Before the light hits the sensor, it goes through an optical glass "sandwich" comprising, usually, the AA filter, and the IR filter. The IR - infrared - filter blocks IR from reaching the sensor. The AA - anti-aliasing - filter is not so much a "filter" as it is a diffuser. It acts to soften hard edges, i.e., abrupt changes, which is what can cause moire effects. Of course, that also softens the image.

    I learned about all this stuff when I tried doing an IR conversion on my old point & shoot cameras. I broke several in the process. Owning up to my limitations, :doh: I broke down and sent a camera out to somebody who knew what he was doing. :biggrin: