E-PL2 and the Red dots affect.

[Roark]

I was looking at the dpreview.com forums and noticed that there may be an issue when taking a picture with a source of bright light somewhere in the frame; It leads to a red dot affect around the source. Check it out for yourselves E-PL2: Shall we collect our "red dot" pictures here? [Page 1]: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Has any E-PL2 owners here noticed those red dots?

 

[linkedit]

Just looked at those shots on dpreview. That's pretty much the deal breaker for me.

 

[Djarum]

I had made a thread/references at our sister forum, seriouscompacts here:

FYI: E-PL2 red dot problem

 

[Djarum]

As Andy Westlake said in regards to this, several cameras do this, to some degree or another. I tried with my E-P1 at f22 and the kit lens, and it was hard to discern, but it was there. Not to the extent of the E-PL2, though.

 

[OPSSam]

Nex, E-Px, Panasonic G whatever, basically any camera with a small lens and a big sensor closer to the lens are seeing this. Most at F-22, when you are shooting with a very bright light in the picture. The pattern manifests itself in different ways on each system, but it is going to be with us until someone comes up with a solution to reduce what is essentially micro-lens flares. Luckily the situations described affect none of the pictures I take.

Use a wider aperture, avoid overpowering lights in your shot, and avoid shooting pictures of the sun in general. Most of the shots at that link with the most severe dots are pointed close to or directly at the sun during the middle of the day. I think it's a little crazy to point a magnifying glass at the sun, casting that light onto a electronic sensor that does not respond well to excessive heat and is always in the path of that light when in normal use. But that's just me.

With my alienbee flash bulb deliberately visible in the shot at F-22 I can certainly see it. Maybe the first time it shows up in my regular pictures I'll be mad it's there, but so far I haven't seen it yet. Those pictures at the link above of the cars shows how it can turn a blown highlight a little red. Correcting it should not be much trouble if it that objectionable. As for those sun shots, well there's not alot to say there aside from what I said above.

 

[Brianetta]

E-P1 with the kit lens here. If you look at the full size image (click the image to get that) you'll just be able to make out some of the effect buried in the flare, but if I didn't know what I was looking for I wouldn't see it, even if I was looking for problems. Having the sun in the shot shouldn't give you a shower of blood; other cameras don't do it nearly as much.

I was worried about the potential for heat damage to my sensor as I composed this shot, I'll admit. No damage was done, though.

 

[johnny9fingers]

Hi Everybody,
I was under the impression the sensor, AA filter, and processor package is the same as in the E-PL1. And I never noticed that effect with my camera and didn't hear that it was a problem with anyone else's. Is it a wide spread occurrence with the PL2?

John

 

[Roark]

That is what I believe also John. I have seen photos online that have the sun in the background and do not have that effect. My original guess is that it may be caused by the new kit lens, or maybe even could be coming from one of the production models i.e. the black model, red or white. I don't know much about the anatomy of cameras so take my ideas with a grain of salt.

 

[Red Leader]

My E-PL2 shows the red dot effect. It happens in various lighting, most often when pointed directly at strong sunlight. It is diffused when the sun is hidden in clouds or when partially obscured, but even when the sun is small or not as bright - if it is fully in the picture, the red dots are virtually guaranteed.

This also happens with artificial light as well, as documented on other forums. I tried it with my flashlight and while a little harder to produce, I was able to get red dots with a flashlight.

I'm not quite sure what to do yet. I love the camera. However, I'd be bummed if some shots were ruined by the red dot artifacts manifesting themselves when shooting something that has some sun bounce and not even directly at it. Other than this issue, the camera is near perfect!

 

[OPSSam]

E-P1 with the kit lens here. If you look at the full size image (click the image to get that) you'll just be able to make out some of the effect buried in the flare, but if I didn't know what I was looking for I wouldn't see it, even if I was looking for problems. Having the sun in the shot shouldn't give you a shower of blood; other cameras don't do it nearly as much.

I was worried about the potential for heat damage to my sensor as I composed this shot, I'll admit. No damage was done, though.

And that's a good picture to use as an example. Most of the instances I am seeing are extreme. It's not a simple light; it's the sun or a highlight that is blown out that seem to be the biggest offenders. I was mostly paraphrasing the manual in my post above, which actually warns of even igniting some part of the camera when it is pointed at the sun. I would normally expect the effects you have in your picture shooting like that.

With my camera (E-PL1 and kit lens) I have one 'red dot' picture I could find, and another I would have expected to see some red dots. Although, the pictures were taken with aperture wide open because the situation required it.

Check the top left of this photo (not a dot but the best I could find):

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

I took alot of pictures in the museum and this is the only one that stood out.

Where as this picture may have been worse at F22 with all these light sources:

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

but I could not spot anything outside of what I would consider acceptable or normal. Also shot wide open because the was no other way to shoot in that environment.

 

[Roark]

I was checking out the dpreview forums and found a response from one of the posters, forum name John Corbett, that comes from Olympus Europe itself.

"Though I haven't found this "issue" problematic, I did however email Olympus Europe with some sample pictures and asked for their opinion.
Below is their response:
Hello,
Thank you for your sample picture.
When you take a picture with a strong spot light in the frame, there is a case some red spots may appear around the light source in a grid or radial pattern. This is a phenomenon caused by reflected images of micro lenses located on the sensor of the camera, and more likely to appear when the brightness gap is broader within the frame. This appears not only with the E-PL2, but with other models depending on the shooting conditions. When you take a picture with a strong light source in the frame, we recommend you to choose wide apertures to make them dimmer and less remarkable. You can choose further wider apertures if you attach an ND filter on the lens.
Please do not directly shoot the sun, as it may cause fire or malfunctions. /
Seems pretty much to match the consensus here on the forum [sic]

 

[Red Leader]

I was curious about the official position Olympus has on this specific issue so I decided to call them. I just got off the phone with an Olympus Customer Service Representative.

The summary of what they had to say was that this is a relatively new discovery that they have just been hearing reports about and they are 'in process' with figuring out what to do about it. The c/s support said that the issue comes from having the lens so close to the sensor - but described it as being an issue across the board with all the PENs, whereas various tests and comparisons have show this issue to appear much more dramatic on the E-PL2 only.

The only suggestion offered was to shoot at a larger aperture (all my photos with the red dots were taken at f3.5 on kit lens, so no luck there). Right now they are not considering this a warranty issue or defect with the camera, so they are not offering refunds, repairs, or exchanges with it. So basically, if you buy this camera, find out that some of the pictures you like to take show these strong red dots, decide it is unacceptable, you are SOL

The good news is that I love everything about this camera other than these weird red dots so I'm not too upset. However not everyone is probably going to be as happy about it. I am a little bummed about the 'oh well' attitude Olympus has about it right now, but maybe that will change when they reach a conclusion from their testing and keep receiving more calls about it. Let's hope!

If you think its important to you or your decision to buy this camera, I would definitely give them a call and let them know your position on it. From some of the posts here and elsewhere, it sounds like this issue has absolutely been turning some people away. While the issue itself didn't bother me as much since I knew about it beforehand, knowing what I know now about Olympus' official position on the matter, I may have just sprung for the E-P2 or GF1.

 

[Brianetta]

Right now they [ Olympus ] are not considering this a warranty issue or defect with the camera, so they are not offering refunds, repairs, or exchanges with it. So basically, if you buy this camera, find out that some of the pictures you like to take show these strong red dots, decide it is unacceptable, you are SOL

Luckily, in most countries (and certainly the UK) your contract of sale is not with Olympus, but with the retailer from whom you bought the camera. Olympus aren't required to have an opinion here; if you wish to claim that the camera isn't fit for the purpose for which it was sold, then your sole course of redress is with the retailer, not the manufacturer.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Wow, its like people are looking for things to be upset about.

 

[Luckypenguin]

Please do not directly shoot the sun, as it may cause fire or malfunctions. - Olympus Europe

Is this some kind on industry inside joke? I've heard this for years but I have yet to see one of these vampire-like cameras that spontaneously combusts when pointed at the sun.

 

[OPSSam]

On a semi-unrelated note, a SLR camera lens is a great thing to have if you are ever in a survival situation. During the day, in direct sunlight, you can use the focused sunlight to start a campfire in less than a minute. It sure beats rubbing two sticks together. I think I saw that on Survivorman on the discovery channel, but I can't remember for sure.

 

[Brianetta]

An f/2.8 200mm telephoto really is the business for that. I have first hand experience.