E-PL1 - when using 'A' or 'S' exposure is not accurate on LCD

squeegee

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Keep in mind this only happens when you've hit the limit of aperture or shutter. It doesn't bother me, it only annoyed me slightly because I'm not always paying attention to the myriad of numbers overlaid on my picture (because there too much junk on the screen). If the entire picture dimmed or brightened, it would be more obvious that I'm taking a picture that's out of whack than just one flashing number (out of like 20 on the screen).

I don't get this problem often but I can see how an e-p1l might hit this more as it only does 1/2000.
 

Streetshooter

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The idea of A or S mode is to provide you a choice of 1/2 the equation.
The camera displays proper exposure in those modes.
You should use M mode if you want to see changes on the screen.
In M, the camera does not complete the other 1/2 of the exposure equation.
 

RichStant

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The idea of A or S mode is to provide you a choice of 1/2 the equation.
The camera displays proper exposure in those modes.
You should use M mode if you want to see changes on the screen.
In M, the camera does not complete the other 1/2 of the exposure equation.
I'm not arguing with these points, and I realise what the different modes are for. My point is that the EV/LCD/histogram appear to behave correctly in the most basic (P) and most advanced (M) modes, but are broken in the 2 intermediate (A/S) modes.

Interestingly Olympus now claim that on their E-PL1 cameras, the histogram works correctly in A/S modes. Preston & Squeegee have confirmed that their cameras behave like mine. Can anyone else confirm whether their E-PL1 behaved like mine, or whether anyone has one that behaves as expected in A/S modes?
 

squeegee

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Rich: When you're in P mode, you can't change anything so it's rather difficult to say that it is displaying the "correct exposure" even when you throw the aperture or shutter speed out of whack, mainly because you can't. I guess if you tried to take a picture of the sun in direct light, this might be the only way to test this, but I think the picture of the sun would look the same over exposed or underexposed on the LCD.

StreetShooter: We realised what A/S/M does. What we're arguing is that the image displayed on the LCD should be the image that will be captured when we press the shutter button. This appears to be the case for M but is not for A/S. Here is an example of what we're talking about. Take your e-p1, turn it to S mode. Change the shutter speed to 1/4000. Point the camera towards your computer you're reading this on. Notice the beautiful picture on the LCD. Now hit the shutter button. Notice the beautiful black image you've just taken. If the preview was all black, it would have been more obvious to decrease the shutter speed. The difference is in the processing pipe line of the image, in M mode they apply the settings, then display the image. It appears in A/S mode they display the image before applying the settings.

Rich : "Interestingly Olympus now claim that on their E-PL1 cameras, the histogram works correctly in A/S modes." As the manufacturer... they get to define what correct means for a given feature. As a result yes they can say it works correctly, especially if it were intentionally designed that way. The only thing we can say is that we disagree with their choice of that feature, but if it works they way they say it works, then yes, it is working correctly even if we don't like the way it works.
 

RichStant

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Fair points all round, but if Olympus are saying theirs works differently to mine (ours?) then there is a way to make it work the way I want, so it's worth investigating.

Streetshooter, could you do the following. It might not work in bright light:
Put it in 'S' mode, set the ISO to 100, and get the histogram up. With the shutter speed slow, the aperture should be closed. Start choosing faster shutter speeds until the aperture is fully open. Carry on choosing faster shutter speeds. The aperture setting should start flashing to indicate that it cannot compensate further. As you choose even faster shutter speeds, does the LCD get darker, does the exposure comp show -EV, and does the histogram shift to the left? Finally take a picture - it should be very under-exposed.

Thanks!
 

Streetshooter

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Rich,
I see what your talking about. I'm not sure that it's a flaw in the design but I have to really think about it.
I really don't like meters in the camera at all but I'm stuck cause most do.

Myself, I try to find a compromise with my gear. Then after a meeting of the mind and technology, I forget about everything and just work. If something goes wrong, I can usually figure it out in a heartbeat.....

The way things seem to me, I would still suggest that you guys shoot M mode and see the result on the screen. I use A most times as I prefer to choose fstops....

You guys found something and maybe OLY would address it but you have to choose your battles carefully and this is one I won't get into.....
Good Luck and please keep posting so others may see what's going on...
Don
 

Djarum

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Just playing with the camera, I always assumed that live view always had the aperature opened up always, not matter what.

Interestingly, in manual mode, I still don't get the same picture. Using the example of 1/4000, aperature at 3.5, taking a picture of my monitor shows a dark picture. After taking the picture, all I get is an almost black picture. I guess live view isn't so live view after all.
 

Streetshooter

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DJ,
geeze, I'm roped in this thread....
When you look at your screen...can you see on the lower right the numbers that show how much off your exposure is...?
 

Djarum

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After doing some more play, this is what I figured out. Doing the above example shows an -3ev in manual mode. When I got to S mode and set 0 EV, I still get a bright screen for live view, but a black picture. When I'm still in S mode, and go to -3ev, the picture becomes dark, but not yet black. I take the picture. I get a black picture.

My conclusion: In manual mode, live view will only show the result from +3ev to -3ev, even if the set S and A values are outside of this range.

In S mode: If setting the shutter speed forces the camera to open all the way up, and with an applied EV value of 0, the live view will show a picture assuming a wider aperature, not the real aperature applied. When I set the EV value to -3 in S mode, I got what the picture would really(or close to) look like.

In A mode: This is kinda hard for me to test. This is how I normally shoot, and have yet to see a problem. My guess is, if I force aperature all the way open, and I shoot a really bright subject that really needs faster than the fastest shutter speed, its going to show a brighter picture than what live view shows.

It appears to me that live view can only show what the picture looks like in S mode, A mode, and even M mode(for me, the actuall picture was black compared to the picture in live view) within +/- 3EV.
 

Djarum

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DJ,
geeze, I'm roped in this thread....
When you look at your screen...can you see on the lower right the numbers that show how much off your exposure is...?
I think my explaination above might help. I think the issue is exposure. I don't think the software will show a picture that is off greater than + or - 3 ev until the picture is actually taken. The EV value blinks in manual mode. When I reach exactly -3ev by raising the shutter speed, then take my picture, the live view matches the picture in manual mode. In A mode, the aperature value blinks when the exposure cannot be taken with the applied EV value and A value.
 

Preston

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All I did on my EP-1 to check the exposure preview was to play with the exposure compensation and see if it caused changes in the LCD display. In P mode it did, in A mode it didn't.

However, I have made a number of customization changes via the camera's menus so I'm not positive a factory default setting would behave the same way.
 

Djarum

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All I did on my EP-1 to check the exposure preview was to play with the exposure compensation and see if it caused changes in the LCD display. In P mode it did, in A mode it didn't.

However, I have made a number of customization changes via the camera's menus so I'm not positive a factory default setting would behave the same way.
I use A mode all the time, and if I change the exposure compensation, I get a different preview image that matches the captured image. The only time I've ran into issues in A mode is if the shutter speed is so long as to capture motion or if the light outside is so bright with the applied aperature and EV compensation that the 1/4000 shutter speed is still too slow to get the right image. I ran into the latter this weekend. I had the camera wide at f3.5 and the EV at -.3. The picture looked dead on, I took the picture, and it was over exposed. When I changed the aperature to f5.6(which at the wide end, I believe is the sharpest), and with a -.3 exposure compensation, the camera chose a 1/2000 shutter speeed, and the preview and the captured image were identicle.

I'd be curious to know what your settings on. A few things I have found that can effect the preview is liveview boost and increasing the LCD brightness.
 

Preston

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I'd be curious to know what your settings on. A few things I have found that can effect the preview is liveview boost and increasing the LCD brightness.
Aha, you are right, it is a setting. My button/dial function was set to flash EV compensation, not regular EV compensation. After I changed it, it works the same on A as on P. Got to be pretty careful when programming this camera.
 

Djarum

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Aha, you are right, it is a setting. My button/dial function was set to flash EV compensation, not regular EV compensation. After I changed it, it works the same on A as on P. Got to be pretty careful when programming this camera.
The EP1 has a TON of settings. I'm waiting for mine to brew me a cup of coffee.:rofl:
 

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