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E-P5 (With VF-4) or E-M10?

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by VincentVance, May 6, 2015.

  1. VincentVance

    VincentVance Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    May 6, 2015
    I've narrowed down my body upgrade from my current E-P3 to either the E-P5 or the E-M10.

    The E-P5 falls short of the E-M10 by having only 35 focus points as opposed to the E-M10's 81. It costs $200 more than the E-M10, and its screen resolution is only 1036mp (This one I really don't care about).

    The E-M10 falls short by having slightly higher ISO Noise, 8 FPS compared to the E-P5's 9, a slightly longer shutter lag (222 vs 196), and a top shutter speed of 1/4000 compared to the E-P5's 1/8000. Also the VF-4 is said to be a much better view finder than the E-M10's.

    Which of these factors should I be most worried about? The focus point difference is what worries me the most. Is it a big deal? In what situations should I choose one camera over the other? Are there any other differences between the two that I should be aware of? They both have WiFi capabilities, similar software sets, and their look/feel is relatively similar in my hands. Perhaps different accessories that set them apart?

    Basically I need something to sway my purchase in one way or another.

    Thanks!
     
  2. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    E-P3 uses the same battery as the E-M10 -- BLS-1 or BLS-5 so I say that's a plus. I have the E-P5. It's a mini version of the E-M1 without PDAF before the E-M5 II came out. The VF-4 is really big and nice, but there are times I prefer a built-in EVF so I have access to the hotshoe to use with my Cactus V5 for non-line of sight remote flash triggering. I've to resolve in using my E-5 which has a OVF built-in so that was a minus for me. But I chose the E-P5 because of the 1/8000 sec, dual toggle switch (like on the E-M1 and E-M5 II) for quick selection of WB, ISO etc and the rangefinder look. I used to own an E-PL1 so that was a natural progression. And besides, I can strip the camera bare (without grip and EVF) and use it as a point and shoot so to speak.

    I would believe the high ISO noise would be relatively the same with the E-P5 and E-M10 as both of them use the same Sony sensor. 35 vs 81 focus points? Worry? It wasn't a problem for me as it is adequate for critical focus work. E-M10 is more modern though. Both are great cameras!
     
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  3. VincentVance

    VincentVance Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    May 6, 2015
    So would you say the E-P5 is worth an additional $200 price difference? (The E-P5 is $650 where the E-M10 is $450) I'm an amateur photographer but my philosophy on tech is to get the best you can afford in order to prevent spending more money down the road on upgrades. When I get the two cameras in my hands, are there specific differences I should be looking for? You mentioned the dual toggle switch which I wasn't aware of.
     
  4. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    Had the E-P5 and E-M1, sold them both for the E-M10 and glass. All three are great. For me I like the viewfinder and didn't need the extras of the E-M1. Build and feel? I think the E-P5 is actually the best in everything but the dial on the back, I would have preferred 4 individual buttons.

    I think it really comes down to viewfinder use. If you would rarely take the VF off then get one built in, if you rarely use it ....... Having a VF as an add on that's always there also creates a weak point. On a DSLR hot shoe / flash issues are one of the first points of body failures so while the VF does have a more secure connection than just a flash if you know it's always going to be on the camera why not have it built in?

    ISO is probably close enough as to not matter IMHO.
    You still have the small point selection option and peaking so I'm sure the AF points makes that much difference.
    3 vs 5 axis IBIS and 1/4000 vs 1/8000 plus the other advanced features are only things you can answer based on your needs.

    From a purely tech perspective the E-M10 is newer, newer processor and other small tweaks. But the E-P5 is a more advanced photography tool. But it's was more than I needed in this kit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Keith
    Welcome to the forum, Vincent!

    As far as comparing those two bodies I would say the MOST significant difference is the obvious one: the E-M10 has a built-in EVF while the E-P5 doesn't. Along with this comes a slight size advantage for the E-P5. Of course, once you add the VF-4 that difference disappears.

    The difference in number of focus points would be pretty low on my personal list of differences that matter (if not on the very bottom of the list). One other difference you mention is the screen resolution, but as far as I know the screen resolution of both cameras is essentially the same.

    Looking down the spec sheets for these two cameras the biggest thing that jumps out at me is the IBIS: the E-P5 has the 5-axis stabilization (from the E-M5), while the E-M10 has just 3-axis stabilization. If you shoot handheld a lot, that difference can be significant. The other thing that stands out is the E-P5's faster maximum shutter speed. You're also right that the VF-4 offers a much higher resolution EVF compared to that on the E-M10. Beyond that, the rest of the differences seem pretty insignificant.

    One final point since you mention accessories that might set them apart: the E-M10 lacks the accessory port which your E-P3 and most of the other Olympus bodies have, so that will limit your accessory options somewhat, although I'm not sure I've seen much use for any of the accessories Olympus offers (beyond the add-on viewfinders).

    Independent of price the E-P5/VF-4 would be the obvious choice, but you're looking at spending something approaching $1000 for that kit. When you consider that the E-M10 can be had for around $500, I think that tips the scales in its benefit. It think I would take the E-M10 and invest the difference in some nice lenses.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
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  6. VincentVance

    VincentVance Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    May 6, 2015
    Thanks for your thorough reply! The one thing I forgot to mention is that I already own the VF-4 for use on my E-P3 so that cost has already been covered. The difference in price between the two bodies is only about $200. Though with your comments on the E-P5 that's the direction I'm leaning currently.
     
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  7. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    I love the dual toggle switch on the rear and I didn't realize now that I use that a lot which allows me to switch between adjust shutter speed/aperture value and quick flip allows me to select manual white balance and shooting ISO. You probably need to get your hands on both cameras first and see which one you like it. Again, I really wish the E-P5 had a built-in EVF so I can use my Cactus V5 wireless trigger. That's my only gripe about the E-P5. If you can save some money, the E-M10 seemed like a great deal but rest assured you can't go wrong with both choices. I don't think you are looking to spend more money down the road on upgrades with the E-M10, unless you are wanting the high-res sensor shift and weather sealing features. The Sony sensor in the E-M10 and in the E-P5 is very good at 16MP. Low light, high ISO performance is competitive if you have fast glass. Use the money saved on fast prime glass instead to get more bang for the buck.
     
  8. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    I'd say the EM10 is the no-brainer if you want to use an EVF. I've never liked the unwieldiness of the add-on EVFs, they can be nice in use but when you're carrying the camera they just seem to stick out everywhere you don't want them to. The EM10 has a great EVF with a great eyecup and the hump doesn't stand as tall as the older EM5. The EVF does make the profile of the EM10 thicker and taller than the EP5 but not compared to EP5 + VF4.

    Also I haven't seen anything to indicate that the image quality of the EM10 is inferior to that of the EP5.
     
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  9. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Keith
    Not to muddy the waters, but you might also want to consider the E-M5 (mark 1). It is essentially similar to the E-P5 with the addition of the EVF. It does lack WiFi connectivity and the 1/8000 shutter speed and has a lower resolution (but OLED) screen, but it makes up for that (in my estimation, at least) by offering weather sealing. And you can pick one up for roughly the same price as the E-M10.

    It really depends on what features are most important to you -- this system offers an embarrassment of riches when it comes to body options.
     
  10. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    And one more awesome camera that is at least E-P5 level - The Panasonic GX7. Outstanding camera for the $$.
     
  11. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    I just recently picked up an E-M10 for $399 brand new off Amazon and warranty. Also came with a free bag, free 16gb SD card and free shipping. In terms of bang-for-buck, the E-M10 is the camera to get.
     
  12. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    How do you find these deals. :bowdown:
     
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  13. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    Opportunity cost. $200 may be the difference in the purchase price. But would you still need the VF-4 if you purchased an E-M10? Or would you sell it so the difference after the sale would be closer to $300?
     
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  14. budeny

    budeny Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 4, 2014
    Boulder, CO
    In last year I owned EP5, EM10 and EM1, so here are my 2 cents:

    - I don't worry about focus points - I use separate buttons for focus and shutter, so I use only one point in center to focus on what I need and re-frame.
    - ISO, FPS, shutter lug, again, not an issues for me.
    - 1/4000 vs. 1/8000 is big difference here in Colorado - we have tons of sun and snow and it's not so rare to need speeds faster than 1/4000 even at f5.6
    - VF4 (same as EM1) is much better resolution than EM10 and you can tilt it up what is very useful for low to ground or up into sky shots. On bad side: VF4 is a quite big hump to add to EP5. It also cannot use extended eye cup - which I suggest as I constantly grease EVF's with my eyelashes.
    - both EP5 and EM10 will contribute greatly from any sort of additional grip. I'm making my own one's

    In the end - I'm very happy with EM1 as it has everything that I wanted and liked in EP5 and EM10 plus additional perks and don't have AA filter.
    PS: personally, I would wait for EM1 Mark II to come out and see how prices will plummet same way as they are now with original EM5
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  15. VincentVance

    VincentVance Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    May 6, 2015
    Good point. Though I'd probably hang onto it on my E-P3 as a backup. I've grown too attached to it perhaps!
     
  16. fin azvandi

    fin azvandi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 12, 2011
    South Bend, IN
    For me it came down to the EVF, rear toggle switch, and higher shutter speed on the E-P5. Touchscreen to focus/shoot is handy in a lot of situations and I find myself using the VF-4 less often, but it is big and beautiful (and when it's not on the camera everything is a bit more compact). I usually shoot with face detect mode or center point focus, but the # of focus points hasn't felt like a limitation in the few instances I needed to select one. Does the E-M10 allow you to use a grid of really tiny boxes spaced out, or just the default block?

    Can you go somewhere and compare the two bodies in person, see how the two viewfinders and dials compare, etc?
     
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  17. VincentVance

    VincentVance Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    May 6, 2015
    I think it does. I'll have to double-check, but the marketing material on Olympus's store shows a view like this. I think that's standard for all recent Oly cameras - my E-P3 has the same function.

    I've been calling everywhere. The only store I've found that had Olympus products only had a floor model of the E-M10 which I wasn't terribly fond of. But I felt a bit rushed as they were closing soon. Haven't been able to find an E-P5 floor model let alone the two side-by-side. I live in Chicago, so I'm branching out to stores in the suburbs at this point.
     
  18. tyrphoto

    tyrphoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 25, 2014
    Seoul | NYC
    ㅇtㅈyㅅr
    If those were my only two choices, I'd go with the E-P5 with VF-4.

    - I shoot predominantly with EVF/OVF so the quality of the VF is important for me.
    - The 1/8000s shutter speed is a big plus.
    - Better IBIS.

    As far as AF points, that's a non-issue for me since I use center point most of the time.
    As far as the big hump that the VF-4 adds, that's also a non-issue, at least for me.

    Technically, IMO, the E-P5 is the better camera. In fact, I'd take the E-P5 over the original E-M5. However, that doesn't mean the E-P5 is the better camera for everyone. One thing that specs will never tell you is the haptics and overall feel of the camera. Try both cameras out and choose the one that feels right in your hands. Both cameras are capable of taking amazing images.

    Slightly off topic, but I'm curious why Olympus hasn't come out with a replacement E-P6? If they ever do, I'd love one with a built-in EVF in the corner where the popup flash is. I'd buy one without hesitation as a second body.
     
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  19. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Keith
    Sounds like you're describing the Panasonic GX7. ;)
     
  20. VincentVance

    VincentVance Mu-43 Rookie

    11
    May 6, 2015
    Dare I complicate the decision-making process by asking how the GX7 compares to the E-P5 and E-M10? I think the glaring difference is the lack of in-body image stabilization but other than that?