E-P1 vs Canon 5D Video

Discussion in 'Filmmaking' started by kevinparis, Feb 21, 2010.

  1. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    Bored on a sunday afternoon I thought I would try a little experiment.

    I set up my 5D Mkii with a 35/2 lens and my E-P1 with a Zeiss Sonar 50/1.4

    The canon had a Rode Stereo video mic , and the EP1 recorded through its own mic

    and filmed simultaneously a short sequence of me murdering a guitar :)

    I didn't pay too much attention to lighting, ISO and other settings. I was more curious to see what the workflow would be and whether you could mix and match the clips.

    Took both clips on to my mac and converted both to Apple ProRes 422 format using Compressor. I did this because editing the Canon footage is a right pain otherwise.

    I downsized the Canon footage from 1080 to 720 at this stage as well

    The edit was done in Final Cut Pro. I used the audio from the Rode mic - but the audio from the EP1 was not wasted - I used the waveforms from it to 'crash sync' the two clips.

    I did no other PP on this .... wonder if you can work out which camera too which shot

    <param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=9618688&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=0&amp;show_byline=0&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00ADEF&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=9618688&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=0&amp;show_byline=0&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00ADEF&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="225"></embed></object>


    Kevin
     
    • Like Like x 6
  2. SimplyEd

    SimplyEd Mu-43 Regular

    73
    Feb 10, 2010
    Philippines
    Wide view for the mrkII and zoom view for the e-p1.
     
  3. Brian Mosley

    Brian Mosley Administrator Emeritus Charter Member

    Dec 15, 2009
    Yes, :thiagree: and a nice demo.

    Cheers

    Brian
     
  4. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    well it was a bit of a giveaway given the focal lengths :)

    K
     
  5. SimplyEd

    SimplyEd Mu-43 Regular

    73
    Feb 10, 2010
    Philippines
    yup.. and you can clearly see the noise of e-p1.. :)
     
  6. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    yeah... i will try again sometime paying a bit more attention to iSO settings. But it was encouraging that there is a way to easily combine the footage from two different cameras

    K
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Brian Mosley

    Brian Mosley Administrator Emeritus Charter Member

    Dec 15, 2009
    Yes, that was excellent - good way to synchronise too.

    Cheers

    Brian
     
  8. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    OK another little test of ep1 and 5d

    This time i tried to balance out focal length, ISO and aperture - as best i could though i am not convinced all was the same.

    I had to do some correction in Final Cut and Color to match the shots closer and I didn't take into account that f4 on a four thirds doesn't give the same DOF as F4 on full frame. Also having two different light sources and a dirty filter on the EP1 didn't help :)

    but an interesting experiment/learning process nonetheless.

    It does remind you just how many things you have to pay attention to with video.

    hope this is of interest/help to you all

    K

    <param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=9621630&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=0&amp;show_byline=0&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00ADEF&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=9621630&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=0&amp;show_byline=0&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=00ADEF&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="225"></embed></object>
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. SimplyEd

    SimplyEd Mu-43 Regular

    73
    Feb 10, 2010
    Philippines
    E-p1 for the left view and Mkii for the right view.
     
  10. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    first shot is the ep-1

    k
     
  11. Brian Mosley

    Brian Mosley Administrator Emeritus Charter Member

    Dec 15, 2009
    Damned good showing for the E-P1 Kevin...

    Would it make a difference if you were to do a custom white balance on both cameras before shooting?

    Also, I wonder (and doubt) if doing a custom white balance on one, and then dialling in the same WB on the other would result in a match?

    Cheers

    Brian
     
  12. SimplyEd

    SimplyEd Mu-43 Regular

    73
    Feb 10, 2010
    Philippines
    Its actually hard to tell... the mkii is quite dark... plus... i like oly blues.... :)
     
  13. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    or i could just go film noire and shoot in b/w :)

    i should be able to fix it better....its just i have only ever demoed Color...never had to use the damn thing
    :smile:

    k
     
  14. SimplyEd

    SimplyEd Mu-43 Regular

    73
    Feb 10, 2010
    Philippines
    Im having fun with this... hehe:)
     
  15. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator Moderator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    I really liked this video, other than the fact that it makes me want to start smoking again (doesn't take much to do that).
     
  16. soundimageplus

    soundimageplus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    782
    Feb 2, 2010
    Worcestershire
    5D & E-P1

    I did a similar thing a few weeks ago.
    The 5DM2 is the wide shots and the E-P1 everything else. It was shot as a test to see if the E-P1 would be of use on video shoots.

    After viewing the results, both myself and my business partner were not very positive about that. We already use a GH1 and on occasions a GF1 if we need a lot of angles.

    ******** width="400" height="300"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=8800751&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=8800751&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="300"></embed></object><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/8800751">river avon</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user2534278">taylorstockwin</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>
     
  17. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    Ok looked at that...thank you for posting it....would be interested to know what you felt was inadequate from the E-P1 footage in this context eg view on web as opposed to broadcast?

    The only really thing i saw odd was a strange jitter on some panning shots... which i would put down to a very odd tripod head or some screwup during capture/editing/compression.

    This is not a criticsm... you have to make your own value judgements - I am just interested in recognising where the stumbling blocks are

    K
     
  18. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    would also be interested in your workflow and how you resolve the 1080/720
    MPEG4/motion JPEG issues

    K
     
  19. soundimageplus

    soundimageplus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    782
    Feb 2, 2010
    Worcestershire
    For some of the wider shots I found the E-P1 footage lacking in definition. For closer shots, like the one of the swan, and indeed for your guitar close-ups it was reasonably sharp. When I used the Panasonic 45mm things improved, but overall I think my criticism would be is that its soft. For the web it would probably be fine. I was interested in your EP-1 footage as it was better than I was expecting. I would like to see what you could get with some wider outdoor shots on the E-P1. My company is going to be working with some country parks for some educational videos in the spring which is why I tried it for some general "landscape" type work. I like the footage I get off the GH1 and indeed the GF1 better. It looks sharper with better resolution when I view it.
    I have an E-P2 now and haven't even tried the video as I was disappointed with the E-P1 footage. Seeing your stuff, maybe I should give it a go.

    The stutter is driving me mad. My panning is not great, but its better than the end result you see. I don't know whether this is rolling shutter, or some conversion problem or just some playback glitch. I'm using a Manfrotto fluid head, one of the cheaper ones but its relatively smooth in use. This "strange jitter" as you so accurately call it turns up at the editing stage.
    More investigations are called for.

    I have only graduated to iMovie as yet. My business partner and nephew uses Premiere and does most of the serious editing. I am considering Final Cut Pro & would love your feedback on it. Is the express version worth considering? My concern is the learning curve required to get the best out of it. I tried Premiere but realised it was going to take a lot of time, which I didn't have, to learn to use it well. I therefore stick with iMovie as I can use it relatively quickly and since my portions of our editing are pretty simple it works fine for that.

    For the conversions I have a little converter called wondershare, which I got because of the problems of Macs and AVCHD files. In this case I turned the footage from both cameras into 720 .mov files and then imported those into iMovie.

    A lot of this is relatively new to me and I'm really still very much a photographer shooting a bit of video. However as I indicated, soon I will be involved in something where I'm shooting, and editing a lot more.

    I was pleased to see this thread as input from others is very useful for me at the moment.

    By the way, I loved your stop motion E-P1 & lenses video. Excellent.
     
  20. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    re the jitter

    hi

    just did a quick test with some E-P1 footage doing a pan with a fluid head, and imported it to iMovie

    1) Imovie converts the original motion JPEG file to Apple Intermediate Codec and stores a copy in the Movies folder. It converts this at the same framerate as the original - 30fps. It gives you the option to keep the frame dimensions the same or a smaller odd size

    2) when i played this back in iMovie I got a very jittery pan. I checked the iMovie preferences under Video and mine was set for 25fps. Setting this to 30fps and restarting imovie produced a better result.

    Framerates, codecs and framesizes are the bane of the video world - you really have to keep track of them otherwise you can get yourself in a mess.

    As far as i can see iMove and indeed the Final Cuts dont actually edit AVCHD, but rather convert them to either Apple Intermediate Codec in the case of iMovie and Final Cut Express, or ProRes422 in the case of Final Cut Pro.

    The reason for this is that formats like AVCHD, HDV and even MPEG4 are not like a strip of traditional film where each frame is a complete picture, but rather take a snapshot every so often and then note only the changes in a frame until enough changes that they need to take another snapshot.

    Editing these formats is a nightmare because say you want to make a change to frame 104 in a clip, frame 104 may only contain some changes so the computer has to look back in the file until it finds the previous snapshot frame (called an i Frame). All of this taxes the computer no end.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_compression_picture_types.

    Codec like Apple Intermediate are more like a traditional strip of film in that each frame is complete, so even though the files maybe larger, the computer has less work to do decoding the information.

    Hope this helps

    Kevin
     
    • Like Like x 2