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E-P1 Video: Invest or replace?

Discussion in 'Filmmaking' started by Rogchy, Aug 9, 2015.

  1. Rogchy

    Rogchy Mu-43 Rookie

    14
    Aug 8, 2015
    Dear all,
    I have been using my E-P1 (14-42 ED Kit lens) mainly for shooting videos for about 5 years now. I am getting more and more upset with the noise especially – but not only – in low light situations. As far as I understand, this is mostly due to lack of controls in movie mode (ISO rising)?
    Since shooting videos is already a great part of my studies (and will stay so in terms of future occupation), I don't want to throw out my tight budget for adapted lenses, filters etc. when the improvement compared to my MZ 14-42 is only little.
    My questions:
    1.) Would you regard a new quality lens (maybe sth like the pana 12-35 f2,8) on an E-P1 a good investment or rather a waste of money? I'm asking since there are MFT's for less money with manual controls in movie mode( For example, the Pana GH2)
    2.) Starting from the E-P1, what camera would you regard a real (noticeable) step in terms of movie quality, considering my tight budget of around 500?
    3.) If you say the E-P1 is a camera that is worth keeping ( and adding new lenses), what lens would you recommend to reduce NOISE as much as possible? I was contemplating buying a (adapted) prime lens with focal length between 20 and 35mm.
    4.) Is it fair to say that, for the same budget, the best DSLR will always outperform the best MFT in terms of movie quality? (same lens)

    Thanks a lot°!!
    best to you
     
  2. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    The E-P1 is the oldest mu43 Olympus camera, and Olympus is not renowned for it's video. If you shoot mainly video, switch to a newer Panasonic body. Many of the newest ones have 4K video. I won't advise about Codec stuff because I have no idea how that works. You could probably find a GH3 body for close to $500. Not 4K, but an excellent body. G5 or G6 under $500:

    http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_77eqdvqn81_e
     
  3. phigmov

    phigmov Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 4, 2010
    Yeah - used GH2 or 3 might be a good bet.

    Otherwise if you make heavy use of adapted lenses and in-body stabilisation a used E-M5 might do the trick.

    Keep the E-P1 as a stills shooter or backup body.
     
  4. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Panasonic Gx7 has outstanding video with good control.
     
  5. RichardB

    RichardB Snapshooter

    442
    Nov 19, 2012
    Maryland, US
    Richard
    Just to clarify, are you complaining about audio noise on the soundtrack or video noise in the image?
     
  6. Bif

    Bif Mu-43 Veteran

    380
    May 28, 2012
    San Angelo TX
    Bruce Foreman
    Rogchy:

    Jump on this FAST before someone like me snaps it up!

    https://www.mu-43.com/threads/78998/

    Actually I would if I hadn't just got a G7. The price is right, shutter count is low, and the video I've seen is excellent. You also might consider adding a few hundred to your budget for a G7 ($797 at B&H).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Rogchy

    Rogchy Mu-43 Rookie

    14
    Aug 8, 2015
    Thanks, I will check all your suggestions later. Just two follow up questions:
    1. If I want to achieve a durable and reliable solution, would you rather go with
    a) buying the "cheapest" Panasonic Body (G2 maybe?) and invest the rest of the budget into a better lens or
    b) buying the "best" body (like GX7?) and take the lens that's included (like the 14-42 kit lens)

    2. Are there key differences between the different body sizes, like G2 compared to GX7, maybe in terms of work reliability or so?

    @RichardB@RichardB: Sorry,I was speaking of video noise. Audio, I record separately.

    @Bif@Bif: I'm afraid I have to check out the other solutions before,thanks anyway
     
  8. Rogchy

    Rogchy Mu-43 Rookie

    14
    Aug 8, 2015
    I just went to a department store and luckily found all of the mentioned cameras + the Sony A6000 which made a good impression as well. I disliked the fact that with the G5 you cannot control exposure compensation in movie mode. (Please,correct me if I'm wrong)
    When I saw the Nikon D5300, compared to the Panasonic G5,there is only a small difference in size, so I was thinking: what is the advantage of buying the G5 with the smaller sensor compared to the Nikon D5300 (larger sens) or another smaller DSLR? Leaving the budget aside, for a moment.

    ANother ignorance on my side: what really are the key factors of a digital camera for shooting video/movie. Sensor size, MP, lens? Or other factors that have a much bigger impact (compression)?
    And then,( sorry for the digression) I stumbled upon the Black Magic Cinema Pocket () and like it very much. It was interesting,for me, to see a comparison with the GH2(larger sensor?), I liked the BMCP much more. Here's an interesting comparison: , (00:38)
    Also, I would argue that the BMCP has (ungraded) a more "cinematic" quality to it. Can you help me out with a possible reason for that?

    So many questions.......Thanks a lot again
     
  9. Bif

    Bif Mu-43 Veteran

    380
    May 28, 2012
    San Angelo TX
    Bruce Foreman
    No. The G1, G2, and G3 are all too obsolete video wise. I had an E-PL1 (slightly improved E-P1) and the video was kind of OK. The G5 does not allow manual control of aperture, shutter, or ISO in video mode. Full auto only, so that one is out too. The G6 and G7 give you pretty much full control with manual mode.

    That newest version of the 14-42 that comes with the G7 is actually getting good reviews. I like mine and often leave it on the camera for the convenience it offers. The range covers what I call "workhorse" wide angle to portrait perspective telephoto; sharpness, contrast, and color tonality look good to me. I also just found a lightly used one to go on my GX7.

    It's a pretty good starter IMO.


    I don't know how big the G2 was but the G7 has a good grip and is still some compact and quite light in weight. A great "grab 'n go" camera yet of a decent enough size to work well as a second camera to my GH4.

    @Bif@Bif: I'm afraid I have to check out the other solutions before,thanks anyway

    Just looked like a good deal. I'd have grabbed it if I hadn't just got the G7.

    Good luck
     
  10. Rogchy

    Rogchy Mu-43 Rookie

    14
    Aug 8, 2015
    Thanks for your reply. I'm sorry, I wanted to write GH2, not G2, in my previous post..

    So far, I could narrow it down to GH2 vs. G6. I read a lot comparisons and tried to watch some unedited footage, couldn't decide yet.
    Major differences for me would be:

    - GH2 hacks available (will it provide one with raw VQ in the end?)
    - G6 has 1080/60p
    - Used GH2 probably cheaper

    Would appreciate it very much if you could add what I'm missing. Key priorities are: Overall video quality, low light noise, durabilty/reliability

    I did not really understand the reason why people complain about lack of multi aspect ratio with G6. Can anybody say if that is a "philosophical" argument or noticeable in terms of VQ?

    I could get a used GH2(probably no warranty) with the new 14-42mm for 350 (no accessories but one extra battery). Would it be stupid to buy it if I can have a new G6 for a little more?
     
  11. Bif

    Bif Mu-43 Veteran

    380
    May 28, 2012
    San Angelo TX
    Bruce Foreman
    I had 3 GH2's, eventually I had the Flowmotion 2.02 hack on all, it proved very stable. Most of the "hacks" either stepped up the bitrate and allowed the bitrate to vary as needed.

    GH2 quality "stock" was not bad with version 1.1 firmware, it was visibly a tad better with the conservative "hacks".

    The G6 was kind of supposed to be a GH2 replacement and it did very good video from what I could see. The G7 is, to me, a real decent replacement for the the GH2. I liked the compact size and light weight of the GH2, the GH3 got bigger and a bit heavier but I put up with that for the video quality, the GH4 likewise.

    But with the G7 the light easy to carry feel is back (with much of the IQ of the GH4) and if I were in your shoes the G7 is the way you should go. You'll have the latest image tech Panasonic has for these cameras and you'll be set for quite some time.

    Buying used GH2...I wouldn't count on it. They are now getting "long in the tooth" and even considering the "hacks" available for them and lack of hacks for the G7 (flat doesn't need them!), I would work part time, mowing lawns or driving pizza delivery or whatever to earn the price of the new one. It's not that much.

    New G6...Discontinued, generally not available any more. If you have to go somewhat low budget there is a G6 with low shutter count and 4 batteries here for $350:

    https://www.mu-43.com/threads/78998/

    I almost jumped on it but already have a G7
     
  12. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    G6 or GX7, or GH3 if you can find a decent deal on one.
     
  13. Rogchy

    Rogchy Mu-43 Rookie

    14
    Aug 8, 2015
    Mhmm I will rethink it. But I'm afraid the G7 is out of the game. Of course, I could save the extra money but I was rather hoping to stay within or even below my budget.. I guess a G6 would be the best choice then?
    Are you hesitant about a used GH2 because they are known for long-term problems?



    Update:
    I think I'll be going with a used G6 body and the Pana 20mm F1.7. Or would anybody suggest a better prime lens for a similar price?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  14. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    For video, I wouldn't suggest the 20mm, as the focus motor does make noise. Olympus 17mm f1.8 is probably a better choice, as it also has a distance scale for manual focus and a clutch that allows "true" focusing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Bif

    Bif Mu-43 Veteran

    380
    May 28, 2012
    San Angelo TX
    Bruce Foreman
    I do understand budget and financial restrictions. But on occasion a purchase that seems out of reach requires another solution. Saving the extra money is just such a solution. And perhaps the price of the G7 will follow the pattern of the G6 and GX7 by coming down some for the holidays. Should this happen, don't hesitate past Christmas because prices go right back up Jan 1st.


    This could be part of plan "B". Go for a G6 now but don't hesitate much longer or the one I linked to will be gone. I don't see any others available right now. Plan "B" could be: Jump on that one NOW! And commence saving for a G7 later down the line.

    No. But any electronics based camera can develop "ailments" or fail completely at any time. If a battery dies in the middle of a firmware update (which is how the "hacks" on the GH2 are done), the camera is "bricked". So if anything happens where do you get a replacement on a camera that had nowhere the production run of the Canons and is in shorter supply with each passing month.

    For one guy recently, Panasonic declined to repair a GH2, opted instead to replace it with a GH3 which would be a good deal if the guy can get along with the EVF. The GH3 EVF can be problematic for some as Panasonic "shrunk" optical system some from what was in the GH2. Any way last I heard he was still waiting for the replacement.


    This guy has a very good point...If you can live with the 17mm (full frame equiv is 35mm FOV) slightly wide angle perspective. The 20mm is really a good "starter" prime and the focus motor noise can be taken care of by using an external mic with a shock mount on a bracket so the mic is off the camera. Or by not using autofocus in the middle of a "take". I have this lens and use it a fair amount.

    Agent Lossing's advice may be spot on if you're flexible. But here's a short comparison of the two from the FOV angle.

    20mm: slightly wide normal, not quite approaching wide angle. As long as you don't get too close to faces you won't get foreshortening distortions (slightly enlarged noses for example. Perspective will look fairly normal and you can get some selective focus effect with shallow depth of field at f1.7-f2.8 or so.

    17mm: slightly wide angle, same perspective loved by many photojournalists using 35mm lens on 135mm film. Good for groups without getting wide angle distortions until you got somewhat close. This is a focal length some have used very effectively on handheld stabilizers, more forgiving of movement than longer focal lengths, Plus all the advantages listed by Agent Lossing. I have the 17mm f2.8 version and use it occasionally.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  16. Rogchy

    Rogchy Mu-43 Rookie

    14
    Aug 8, 2015
    Now, I just found a used GH3 which, provided I take a lens for 100€(standard kit zoom? ebay prime lens?), stays within my budget. Waah....I'm losing the map!
    Bif, I think I have to skip that offer, since I'm not from the US and I would not like to buy a used cam without taking it into my hands.Still,the offer sounds great..
     
  17. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    If the GH3 is in good condition, it's a great option.
     
  18. Bif

    Bif Mu-43 Veteran

    380
    May 28, 2012
    San Angelo TX
    Bruce Foreman
    Sounds like that GH3 may be your best bet, then.

    The lenses you used with the E-P1 will work on the GH3
     
  19. Rogchy

    Rogchy Mu-43 Rookie

    14
    Aug 8, 2015
    Ok, so with the same lens (like my M.Zuiko) the GH3 will outperform the G6.

    But what if I sell the E-P1 package and have to buy a new lens. There is a difference of roughly 150€ for the bodies, (and that is an almost new G6 vs. heavily used G6 bodies (actually, I have an offer for a new G6 body for 300)), which means that I will have 250 for a G6 lens and only 100 for a GH3 lens.

    WOuld you still go with the GH3 then? I have to add, I won't have much money to buy a new lens in the short future, so I would like to count on the video quality (low light) I obtain
    with this combination
     
  20. Rogchy

    Rogchy Mu-43 Rookie

    14
    Aug 8, 2015
    Just a little update:
    The guy who is selling the GH3 wants 380€ for the body. He bought it in 2013, shutter count is 18000. Display cable damaged, but is repaired again (he hit it by accident).
    Would you go for it? Or do "display cable accidents" usually make other things go awry,too?