E-M5 mk III released at US$1199

RS86

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You don't at the sensor. You do at the body. No sealing, less buttons, smaller EVF. Drive the UI to mostly touch-screen and stick a monster LCD on it (like the X-A7's 3.5" touchscreen) or shrink the size even more so the back is mostly screen (a la M200) with a normal 3" screen (E-PL there). Stuff the card in the battery hatch instead of a separate card door, reduce the interface (they could get away with only a single USB-C port, using that for everything). Drop the charger for pure USB charging (Sony's done that). Lots of places they can trim to keep the bodies differentiated while making the E-M10IV both cheap & decent.

Oly's got low enough in terms of volume that if they can get everything in production on one sensor they should actually get noticeable savings out of that, just because their volume across 2-3 sensors is not high enough to keep pricing on the sensors low.
New LCD would do the same to LCD as the sensor (PEN-F, which has been made already). And not sure does Olympus want bigger cameras throughout the range with big LCD. Bigger LCD is more expensive. New UI need developing and funds.

Battery hatch has the card already in my E-M10 II. Personally I want separate charger so I can recharge at the same time as I take photos. Of course it can be sold separately.

Is less buttons or weather sealing big enough differentation? Likely they keep the E-M10 III IBIS there.

Does anyone know how customisable is the wheel with modes on top of E-M5 III? E-M1 II has more C-modes, but can you change those other mode functions in E-M5 III? Its possible in E-M10 II.
 

whumber

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What's your AF hit rate tracking in AF-C? Shooting common subjects for AF-C that is. There is no CDAF only body on the market which can match a D300 or 7Dm1 for continuous AF hit rate and I can buy one of those bodies on the used market cheaply (literally for beer money in the case of a beatup D300)
That's oversimplifying it a bit. For certain use cases the CDAF in the GH5/G9 can actually be quite good. If you're shooting subjects that move at a relatively constant speed, you have good light, plenty of time to acquire focus, and don't need to rack zoom then I think either of those cameras would work very well. Add in subject acceleration, questionable lighting, racking zoom, or the need to focus on moving subjects that suddenly pop into the frame and now you start to see where those cameras perform poorly. For airshows though, I think you might be surprised by how well the DFD cameras perform.
 

RS86

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For consumers, if the industry standardizes on higher-end tech and stops crippling sensors, AF systems, video, etc., it’s a win. If product lines simplify and consolidate, this may even stabilize the market faster. The EM5.3 is a good camera, except for the price. It’s actually very good for consumers when the mid-range is so


It’s not really feasible to differentiate with sensors. 20mp is still light compared to APS-C and even 1”. PDAF or equivalent is universal even at the $500 body only price point. And 4k video is standard.

That leaves weather sealing, grip, high-res (neither a system breaker nor seller), and marginal other tech. 3-axis vs 5-axis IBIS? Again, crippling is problematic.

Until a new, higher res sensor goes flagship m43, the entire line from top to bottom can really only be the full PDAF, 4k, 20mp offering. Recycling that 16mp sensor (again) would be a marketing disaster. It’s simply not competitive.

That’s why I expect an EM1.3 and EM1X.2 in early 2020. And why I suspect the EM5 and EM10 lines to merge, with entry level left to the EPL entirely...no more entry-level SLR style. Low and mid on the PDAF 20mp 4k sensor, and flagship on a new sensor, maybe 5k or more, 26mp+, and a full stop better overall.
I'm talking about the PEN-F 20MP sensor for next E-M10. Can it have 4K with tweaking, anyone know? PEN-F doesn't. Olympus isn't known for panic about sensor megapixels.

E-M1X II after being on the market for 1 year? When we know Olympus has planned to extend the cycle of releases? How do you think they can release better than that flagship already?

E-M5 II got new version after 4,5 years. E-M1 II is 3 years old.
 

RS86

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To people complaining about the price. It's too much for me too, I'm not a professional. Got two cameras already. But I want it! Not gonna buy it over 1000 € though, 900 € would be great. Will be interesting to see how long do I have to wait, or do I wait in vain.

There is an old saying in Finland: "He is not stupid who asks, but who pays." Smaller difference to E-M1 II might make people buy rather that camera now. It's not for me though, I want two smaller cameras to bring with me. And still it's more expensive, over my budget.
 

Turbofrog

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That's oversimplifying it a bit. For certain use cases the CDAF in the GH5/G9 can actually be quite good. If you're shooting subjects that move at a relatively constant speed, you have good light, plenty of time to acquire focus, and don't need to rack zoom then I think either of those cameras would work very well. Add in subject acceleration, questionable lighting, racking zoom, or the need to focus on moving subjects that suddenly pop into the frame and now you start to see where those cameras perform poorly. For airshows though, I think you might be surprised by how well the DFD cameras perform.
Yes, in my experience airshows are generally pretty undemanding in terms of autofocus performance.

I've gotten lots of good keepers with my pre-DFD GX7 at airshows. That camera has unusable C-AF, but it's quite easy to get good airshow shots using S-AF, which has always been a strong point of M4/3 cameras.
 

FrayAdjacent

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Yes, in my experience airshows are generally pretty undemanding in terms of autofocus performance.

I've gotten lots of good keepers with my pre-DFD GX7 at airshows. That camera has unusable C-AF, but it's quite easy to get good airshow shots using S-AF, which has always been a strong point of M4/3 cameras.

It's kinda an 'airshow' type thing I found huge failures with my 5MkII - I fly powered paragliders, and last year went to Kansas for a fly-in. During the day, there was a guy with an autogyro giving a few people rides. I tried to shoot some video of him landing, but the camera had a really hard time finding focus, and it would go off into la-la land while recording. Even panning down to the ground and the edge of the runway to get some contrasty stuff in frame didn't help it recover.

I'd bet S-AF with a longer lens might not have too much problem finding focus while shooting stills... but the 5MkII was in some situations terribad at locking and maintaining focus. It's the main reason I'll get the MkIII.
 
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Way to misquote me. I never said that. My point is simply that AF-C performance is not a fringe application like you suggested above.

What's your AF hit rate tracking in AF-C? Shooting common subjects for AF-C that is. There is no CDAF only body on the market which can match a D300 or 7Dm1 for continuous AF hit rate and I can buy one of those bodies on the used market cheaply (literally for beer money in the case of a beatup D300)

My D300 (a 12 year old body bought for $20 and a Nikon FM10 film body a couple years ago) hits over 95% at 8fps when I shoot airshows. And that's with a consumer 70-300VR, not the fastest focusing lens out there, tracking relatively consistently moving subjects. Heck, it breaks 80% using an old 70-300G screwdriver AF lens (which I used once on an airshow for giggles) My E-M1 hits 70% on a good day, my E-M5II can't break 50%. All the same subjects.
If you read my post above I stated that it is at the fringe "...in my photographic journey."

What's my AF-C hit rate? 0, zero, zilch, nada. I don't use it. My shooting style, technique, subject matter doesn't need it. (Gosh, I use half century old legacy lenses sometimes - and love it!)

Which gets me to the points that I have to belabor on all of these threads when they devolve to this. There are as many use cases as there are people with a camera. Just because my use case is different than yours, doesn't mean that I am wrong and you are right. It just means that we are different. AND Cameras are tools. All camera manufacturers produce highly complex tools that can be many things for the many people. Some people use some features, others use others. I have my doubts that any photographer uses every feature on their camera regularly. If they do, I'm not sure how they have time to eat, sleep or drink.

If we accept these two premises - use cases vary wildly; cameras are complex tools - then it easy to understand that any one camera might just be perfect (or close to it) for some people.
 

dhazeghi

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RS86

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Thom Hogan has what I found to be a very reasonable take on Olympus's conundrum vis a vis the E-M5 III - http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/2019-mirrorless-camera/october-december-2019-newsv/olympus-e-m5-mark-iii-annou.html

Unfortunately much like in the 4/3 days Olympus doesn't seem to have a very good idea of who their real customers are, and as a niche player, that makes things very difficult.
What is it based on that they don't have a very good idea of who their real customers are? Is this guy the same who has hinted that m43 is gonna die?

Isn't it clear the whole m43 is focused from the beginning on people who think it's enough for them and who want smaller and lighter gear?

E-M5 III looks like a great camera and even with that price I think many will buy it, or go finally with E-M1 II. I have small hands so want small camera, suits me very well in many ways.
 
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E-M5 III looks like a great camera and even with that price I think many will buy it, or go finally with E-M1 II. I have small hands so want small camera, suits me very well in many ways.
Since I am not invested in expensive m43 lenses yet (I consider the 30/1.4 and 75-300ii mid-tiers besides other cheap ones), I have always thought that if I am to go into EM1+pro lenses size & costs, I might as well get an APS-C sensor as well as Fujiland provides at similar cost albeit a little bigger but with better noise performance.

Besides that, I always consider metal paint camouflage an insult to proper quality plastics so if the black one does not feel as good in my hands as the EM10ii does then it is no go for sure for me even at sub $900 and I guess it will be 18 months to get the price at that point which is an eternity nowadays....
 

Bob in Pittsburgh

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I am kind of where MichailK is. I purchased my current camera late in 2015 and plan to pick up another camera body in the 12 to 18 month range (with a viewfinder this time, thank you). The E-M5 MarkIII looks like it will be a good choice. But I am not heavily invested in m43 lenses so I will be able to look elsewhere. When the time comes to make a purchase decision I will look at Olympus' and Panasonic's m43 offerings first. But I will also look at Fuji's APS-C cameras, and might consider Canon's low-end full-frame camera. Maybe even something from Sony. I look forward to having to make that decision.
 

BamaBoy

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Only to those that have been brainwashed into thinking it matters or even makes a blind bit of difference to I.q . In this day and age I estimate around 98% of images only ever end up online ..making full frame a total waste of time ..
Thinking about this I realize you are prob. 100% correct... The higher they push the MP count the more important stability and technique come into play; doesn't take much to get a little overlap with such dense photo sites. Would be interesting to do a poll on the percentage of folks even doing printing and what sizes are the most popular. I would venture to sat there are prob. more 4x6s printed at Costco and Walgreens than anything else. I think if we could plot printing as a histogram with the largest size being at 255 and the smallest size being at 0, the graph would be HEAVILY weighted toward the left... i.e., PTTL ( A new acronym, Print toward the left ). Ha Ha.
 

Pluttis

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I can see that Fuji is tempting for many, especially if you like retro styled cameras ...Personally i would not switch from m43 to a APS-C only system... Difference in image quality is to small and APS-C systems tend to end up being bigger and heavier, especially if you looking at for example Fuji and their f2.8 zooms. I wont ditch m43 but if i would i would go back to FF.
 

RS86

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Thinking about this I realize you are prob. 100% correct... The higher they push the MP count the more important stability and technique come into play; doesn't take much to get a little overlap with such dense photo sites. Would be interesting to do a poll on the percentage of folks even doing printing and what sizes are the most popular. I would venture to sat there are prob. more 4x6s printed at Costco and Walgreens than anything else. I think if we could plot printing as a histogram with the largest size being at 255 and the smallest size being at 0, the graph would be HEAVILY weighted toward the left... i.e., PTTL ( A new acronym, Print toward the left ). Ha Ha.
I have found this article very interesting. https://www.duford.com/2016/04/megapixels-vs-print-sizes/

People wanting that 24MP sensor to M43 for it to be competitive. I don't find it very important, maximum I will print will be likely around 80 cm-100 cm on the wide side. Not even sure I will print that large, 40-60 cm sounds pretty good for a normal wall. Large ones are also expensive.

I think even 16MP camera can give me personally enough quality at that size, have seen some videos about it. I don't crop often. But that of course depends on the person.

According to that chart, if you print 220 DPI (From article: "220 DPI is the maximum discernible resolution to the human eye from 18″ (~46 cm) away"), 20MP M43 camera can print that at size Width: ~60 cm x Height: ~45 cm (23.6 inches x 17.7 inches).

24MP APS-C camera can print that at size Width: ~69 cm x Height: ~46.2 cm (27.3 inches x 18.2 inches).

That is ~9 cm larger on the wide side and ~1 cm more height at 220 DPI.

What is the fuzz about?
 
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Aristophanes

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I have found this article very interesting. https://www.duford.com/2016/04/megapixels-vs-print-sizes/

People wanting that 24MP sensor to M43 for it to be competitive. I don't find it very important, maximum I will print will be likely around 80 cm-100 cm on the wide side. Not even sure I will print that large, 40-60 cm sounds pretty good for a normal wall. Large ones are also expensive.

I think even 16MP camera can give me personally enough quality at that size, have seen some videos about it. I don't crop often. But that of course depends on the person.

According to that chart, if you print 220 DPI (From article: "220 DPI is the maximum discernible resolution to the human eye from 18″ (~46 cm) away"), 20MP M43 camera can print that at size Width: ~60 cm x Height: ~45 cm (23.6 inches x 17.7 inches).

24MP APS-C camera can print that at size Width: ~69 cm x Height: ~46.2 cm (27.3 inches x 18.2 inches).

That is ~9 cm larger on the wide side and ~1 cm more height at 220 DPI.

What is the fuzz about?
Editing has become much easier and ubiquitous, even encouraged with apps. And core to editing is cropping. The more data, the better. Printing is pretty far down the list of how images are used or shared now. That output makes up a share of use likely inconsequential to sales.
 

whumber

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Thinking about this I realize you are prob. 100% correct... The higher they push the MP count the more important stability and technique come into play; doesn't take much to get a little overlap with such dense photo sites. Would be interesting to do a poll on the percentage of folks even doing printing and what sizes are the most popular. I would venture to sat there are prob. more 4x6s printed at Costco and Walgreens than anything else. I think if we could plot printing as a histogram with the largest size being at 255 and the smallest size being at 0, the graph would be HEAVILY weighted toward the left... i.e., PTTL ( A new acronym, Print toward the left ). Ha Ha.
I would say that printing is more of the medium where resolution doesn't really matter. Unless you're using ultra high end printers most photo printers turn fine detail into mush even when printed large. Viewing images on a high resolution screen where you can zoom in on details at will is far more demanding.
 

Pluttis

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I would say that printing is more of the medium where resolution doesn't really matter. Unless you're using ultra high end printers most photo printers turn fine detail into mush even when printed large. Viewing images on a high resolution screen where you can zoom in on details at will is far more demanding.
How often are people publishing so big images online?
 
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