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E-M5 Banding

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by Djarum, May 9, 2012.

  1. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    Jason
    • Like Like x 1
  2. bitmatt

    bitmatt Mu-43 Veteran

    271
    Apr 7, 2012
    Cleveland
    Matt
    I didn't read the DPR link, but I know what you're talking about. I've seen this, but only when I was playing with crazy high ISO settings (maxed out or close to it) in strange mixed (mostly very dark) lighting. After I dropped the ISO to more reasonable levels the banding disappeared. I've never noticed it at ISO 6400 or lower, and that is the highest I would normally go.

    As for it being indoor only, my experience with it was outdoor during the super moon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Adubo

    Adubo SithLord

    Nov 4, 2010
    Globetrotter
    Andrew
    :eek:wow, i almost got scared with the news... atleast iso6400 is clean. back to the waiting list
     
  4. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    Seems like people in that thread have stumbled onto something where banding pops up under specific circumstances which they haven't fully identified yet. I haven't seen any banding yet.
     
  5. bitmatt

    bitmatt Mu-43 Veteran

    271
    Apr 7, 2012
    Cleveland
    Matt
    For giggles I just went into a very dark room here at work and shot a few max ISO pics to see if I could get some obvious banding to post here. No luck, images looked okay (okay for ISO 256,000 :rolleyes:). There may have been some minor banding that I could see when I zoomed way into the shots, but I would expect some aberration like that shooting in the dark max ISO.

    Naturally I didn't keep my experimental shots from last week that had the obvious banding, but I'll try to see if I can recreate the situation tonight & get similar results.

    I don't think this is anything to get alarmed about, like I said before under any reasonable ISO setting (and even most unreasonable ones) I have not seen anything like this.
     
  6. Printfolio

    Printfolio Mu-43 Regular

    65
    May 6, 2012
    Kortrijk, Belgium
    Steven
    Djeez, please no DPR toxicity here!:frown:
     
  7. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    Jason
    The thread in the link shows with images that its there at ISO 1600. Some with Halogen lighting, others with mixed lighting. It doesn't appear to be an issue with just taking pictures in the dark. It's also horizontal, which is rather different than the vertical banding the GH1 had.

    As far as using dpreview, I came across the thread and read it. I wouldn't have put it here if I didn't think there was any validity to it. Multiple users are experiencing this issue. I had not seen any reported issues here, but then again, it also depends on if you are looking for it. Some cases show it is very subtle and others very obvious.
     
  8. bitmatt

    bitmatt Mu-43 Veteran

    271
    Apr 7, 2012
    Cleveland
    Matt
    Just read some of that DPR thread-

    They've narrowed it down to the possible culprit- the Panasonic 20mm lens. That actually coincides with my experience, I was using that lens when I noticed the bands. I hope this is fixable- that's my walking around lens!
     
  9. mister_roboto

    mister_roboto Mu-43 Top Veteran

    637
    Jun 14, 2011
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Dennis
    Gah- I can't stomach DPR forums, it got to the point where I had so many people "ignored" that I couldn't follow threads because most of them were blocked out. Heh even though I'm the guy who posted the photos of the cat in that thread on DPR :wink:

    7165241102_8e16d75ef1_b.jpg

    I tried to re-create it with the E-M5 and found that it only happened to the 20mm f1.7. The 14mm was fine as were the other lenses. I would get banding at 2000 iso, I didn't test it lower than that though.

    It's some sort of electrical shielding problem, probably the 20mm isn't very well shielded from interference. My PC was causing it (pretty sure). I imagine cheapo florescent lights (or a lot of them), some electronics, and power lines maybe would cause it. Which is too bad- one of my fav's, and I imagine in everyone's kits. Why it never happened on say my Pen, I dunnno- although I didn't exactly take the pen over iso 800 much compared to the E-M5 which I take up to 3200.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. hanzo

    hanzo Mu-43 Veteran

    341
    Jan 22, 2010
    Chan
    I might as well add fire to the oil... I'd say this is Olympus' conspiracy to discredit the panny 20mm and promote their own lenses :eek: :biggrin:

    :rofl:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    If it's only the 20mm lens and only when a computer or cellphone is very close to the camera, then I think we're in good shape here.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. fredlong

    fredlong Just this guy...

    Apr 18, 2011
    Massachusetts USA
    Fred
    This is great! Now I'm waiting for a glut of 20/1.7's being sold by EM5 users switching to the 25/1.4 :smile:
     
  13. m43_user

    m43_user Mu-43 Regular

    143
    Aug 4, 2010
    I only use Olympus lenses (until I buy a 25mm f/1.4 some day).
    ;-)
     
  14. bitmatt

    bitmatt Mu-43 Veteran

    271
    Apr 7, 2012
    Cleveland
    Matt
    Just shot a few exposures at ISO 6400 in an old film darkroom (now closet) with the Panny 20 and the Olympus 12-50 zoomed to 20mm to compare.
    EDIT:I did have my phone in my pocket during these shots- just like I always do. But it wasn't up against the camera, more like 3 feet away. I was using a cable release on these.

    There is definitely banding with the Panasonic. I shot with and without a polarizing filter on. The banding was evident in both filtered and filter-free Panasonic 20mm shots, but stronger with the polarizer. Below I've posted the polarizer OOC jpg with the 20mm.
    [​IMG]

    100% crop middle/top-
    [​IMG]

    Same crop- added contrast in Photoshop -
    [​IMG]

    It isn't extreme in this case, but the horizontal banding is obvious when compared to the Olympus 12-50 shot, which features a more random grain & no banding (same shooting specs, 20mm, 6400 ISO, f/5)-
    [​IMG]

    Cropped 100% middle/top-
    [​IMG]

    Looking back over pics I've been taking with the 20 it seems I rarely shoot in poor light with it, most exposures are ISO 200. This explains why I haven't noticed this (outside of my one night shooting experience) until this thread.

    But, this is probably a serious issue. Will Panasonic be quick to respond with a firmware update just so their lens works well with their competition's best camera?

    EDIT: another question- the 20 is the only Panny lens I have. Can anyone else test to see if this occurs in other Panasonic lens/E-M5 combinations?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. bitmatt

    bitmatt Mu-43 Veteran

    271
    Apr 7, 2012
    Cleveland
    Matt
    Thanks Djarum for pointing this out, by the way- this would have driven me crazy trying to fix it if I'd discovered it on my own.
     
  16. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    Jason
    bitmatt,

    No problem. I just thought it was interesting and I hadn't seen anything over here in regards too it. I just hoped it wasn't to the level of the GH1. Also, in many cases, the camera comes out and people tend not to see wrinkles in a new camera until months down the road. Then people hate the darn thing.

    I'm trying to understand how this is a lens issue. Why would a particular lens effect the sensor in such a way?
     
  17. silversx80

    silversx80 Mu-43 Veteran

    229
    Apr 27, 2012
    North Carolina
    Perhaps, since Olympus touted it as a "new" or "tweaked" sensor, it doesn't have the standard Bayer layout with the micro-lenses. Unlikely, since the bands are too large.

    I wonder, since it looks like a frequency-generated banding, if the shots were taken with IS on. If the aperture recoil is more powerful in the 20mm, it might be enough to offset the sensor, the IS compensates, and the higher ISO sensitivity captures the slight shake.

    Furthermore, since the sensor is suspended in regular shooting with IS off, perhaps it still has some slight compensation.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  18. bitmatt

    bitmatt Mu-43 Veteran

    271
    Apr 7, 2012
    Cleveland
    Matt
    My shots did have the IS on, I have never had a reason to turn it off before. I would think anyone else noticing the banding would say the same, since the IBIS is the great strength of the system. I'll have to try a couple shots with the IS off & see what happens. Thanks for the suggestion.
     
  19. mister_roboto

    mister_roboto Mu-43 Top Veteran

    637
    Jun 14, 2011
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Dennis
    I tried it on the Panasonic 14mm, and CV Nokton- none have exhibited the banding under similar conditions. It really does seem to be the 20mm only.

    I tried an informal test with a cell phone near (smart phone with WiFi + 3G) and it did make it more pronounced. Nearby = 8 inches away. I should note also, when it's most pronounced in my photos- I actually see banding on the OLED screen live-view. It doesn't quite match up (and the banding is "rolling" down the screen) with what's in the photo- but it's there and apparent. Only the 20mm does this.
     
  20. williamthorpe271

    williamthorpe271 Mu-43 Rookie

    12
    Jun 21, 2010
    Hi, I have noticed the same flickering screen with the 20mm attached, not noticed any banding but have not been looking for it, I have had problems in general with the 20mm with the camera not waking from sleep mode, camera totally locks and battery has to be removed to restart camera, only with 20mm, 14mm, 45-200 and 100-300 are fine. Problem is very intermittent and not easy to replicate but always seems to happen at inopertune moments. Issue has been reported to Olympus technical dept.