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E-M10 Overexposing + Live View Not WYSIWYG

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by 808N8, May 7, 2015.

  1. 808N8

    808N8 Mu-43 Regular

    34
    May 6, 2015
    Hawaii
    I am a new owner of a Olympus Refurbed E-M10. Coming from a couple years on a Panasonic GX-1. I hoping I'm missing something setup-wise, but I'll try my best to describe the behavior that I'm experiencing on my camera. It's similar to these two threads:
    https://www.mu-43.com/threads/64570/
    https://www.mu-43.com/threads/64479/
    I've read through both of these threads and the manual and have done a full reset on my camera as well... so here goes. I will try to post some pictures later to help describe my problem. My settings are back to default (ESP metering, natural, gradation set to normal -- though set to auto didn't make much difference).

    I am experiencing a combination of camera tending to overexpose + live view not providing me accurate WYSIWYG (i.e. playback of the captured image is not what I see in live view prior to actuating the shutter). Most pronounced in PASM modes, though majority of my testing has been done in 'A' mode. The behavior is also most pronounced when shooting outdoors in daylight.

    Example 1: I shoot a scene in iAuto. Maybe a little brighter than what I saw in live view but pretty close. Look at the playback and see the camera chose f8.0 and 1/500 shutter speed. I go to manual mode and match f-stop and shutter. Result previews and captures pretty close. I go to 'A' mode choose f8.0, camera sets 1/640 shutter (reasonably close). Result is pretty close. I change to f4.0 = really blown highlights. Problem is: it didn't look overexposed in live view, and also reviewing the image information, the camera didn't even try to use the fastest shutter speed (1/4000). It decided to choose 1/2000 (or in other tests 1/1000). I would expect live view to show WYSIWYG in terms of exposure (otherwise what is the point). Also, I would expect if it really is overexposing that much that the camera would be smart enough to cope by at least forcing to the fastest shutter possible.

    Example 2: Same scene, except now in 'A' mode I dial-in -2 EV of compensation. So the screen in live view looks pretty dark. Take the capture, and it ends up looking close to the iAuto capture (which is a little overexposed but decent). Again, why isn't my live view showing accurate exposure?

    Example 3: I turned on blinkies. Same scene. 'A' mode, f4.0, no EV compensation. Live view shows a few blue spots, but no orange. I capture the image & it's overexposed again. I view it in playback and over half the sky is orange blinking... Shouldn't the highlight/shadows have warned me in live view???

    FWIW, I also made sure live view boost is off (If [On] is selected, priority will be given to making images clearly visible; the effects exposure compensation and other settings will not be visible in the monitor)

    I also tried using spot metering to point at shadows/highlights and watched the live view brighten and dim as you might expect. So it looks like the light meter is not completely whacked.

    Hoping you guys can help. Should I take advantage of my 90-day refurb warranty and send this in? Am I overlooking something? Or is this an Olympus 'quirk' (for lack of a better word) that I need to learn to live with? Perhaps those of you who shoot both Panny and Oly bodies might have some insights. (Also FWIW my GX-1 has no problems exposing the same scene with accurate live view ).

    Thanks in advance -- this troubleshooting is driving me nuts!
     
  2. budeny

    budeny Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 4, 2014
    Boulder, CO
    Menu J -> EVF Adjust -> EVF Auto Luminance = off?

    Providing OOC jpegs with full exif info will help with EV..
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. 808N8

    808N8 Mu-43 Regular

    34
    May 6, 2015
    Hawaii
    budeny -- thanks I should've mentioned that the result is same through EVF and LCD screen. I did stumble upon the EVF adjust option and tried a combination of setting it manually vs auto and that didn't help either.

    as a 'solution' I don't mind dialing in EV compensation... but I need live view (EVF or LCD) to be accurate otherwise it's just becomes a trial/error guessing game.

    I took some pictures of my live view to go along with some OOC jpegs (just resized only). They are junky phone camera pictures, but hopefully will help convey what I'm seeing. I'll try to post them up later on tonight or over the weekend when I have time.
     
  4. 808N8

    808N8 Mu-43 Regular

    34
    May 6, 2015
    Hawaii
    also FWIW I've done most of my testing on my Panny 12-35, though have observed similar results on my Panny 25mm and Oly 45mm.
     
  5. budeny

    budeny Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 4, 2014
    Boulder, CO
    Have you tried to reset all settings and start fresh?
     
  6. adi10times

    adi10times Mu-43 Regular

    164
    Apr 24, 2010
    Bandung, Indonesia
    Michael Adi P.
    You can also try to activate the live histogram, then compare the histogram and the final photo
    I always meter with histogram as my guidance.
    IMO EM10, and also other Olys I have, tend to be underexpose to protect highlight especially when meter with ESP (depend on the scene though)
     
  7. Jerp31

    Jerp31 Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    Mar 15, 2015
    Louisville
    JP
    I also noticed this yesterday while messing around with the camera (EM5) in my house. I would take photos of random objects using the histogram as a guide. When I took the pictures my histogram was left heavy, and when I viewed the pictures, their histograms were right heavy. Wasn't sure if this was normal or not as I just got into photography
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    Are you using spot metering or entire sensor averaging? Spot metering is not really WYSIWYG with Olympus cameras (it's a bit screwy).

    Also, is live view boost on?
     
  9. tyrphoto

    tyrphoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 25, 2014
    Seoul | NYC
    ㅇtㅈyㅅr
    Nobody has mentioned this yet but check your "Gradation" setting in the Super Control Panel. The settings are marked Auto, Normal, High and Low. These settings will have a major influence on shadows and overall metering. Typically, I leave it on Auto unless the scene confuses the camera and requires a different setting at which time I'll set it to High or Low.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. budeny

    budeny Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 4, 2014
    Boulder, CO
    here:
     
  11. 808N8

    808N8 Mu-43 Regular

    34
    May 6, 2015
    Hawaii
    I just noticed this same behavior! I tried the same scene -- histogram with a good distribution. Then I forced the histogram to be left heavy by dialing in -2EV exposure compensation. For some reason after viewing it in playback there is a spike on the right side that wasn't there before capture.

    Similarly, here is a shot from yesterday (sorry not sure if google drive embeds properly):
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2ODMwVPUPxuV0puRVA2Q0RkUGs&authuser=0
    Here is what I saw in live view:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2ODMwVPUPxuTGhweTV6TU51YjQ&authuser=0
    Here is what I see in playback mode:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2ODMwVPUPxuem13NGE3LURaS2s&authuser=0

    Also to address some other questions: shooting in ESP, Natural, Normal Gradation (tried Auto too), pretty much everything as default (did full reset on settings).
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2015
  12. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    In that example it's maxed out the shutter speed however you're on aperture priority - it cannot get your -2 desired exposure as it can't go faster and the ISO can't go lower.

    I'm unsure why the liveview doesn't update and display that though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    Some quick testing shows that if the scene is over exposed more than +3 on compensation(if it's overexposed and out of the shutter speed range even with +3 set) the live view will not actually reflect the picture taken (it will darken despite on +/-0 and darken further with -ve despite the actual picture not reflecting that).
     
  14. 808N8

    808N8 Mu-43 Regular

    34
    May 6, 2015
    Hawaii
    Hmm interesting -- definitely not what I'm accustomed to coming from the Panasonic interface. How about this example then? Shutter could've gone faster (only shot 2000)... and also the blinkies didn't show warning either (you can see some small shadows being clipped but that's it)...

    the capture:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2ODMwVPUPxuY2IxaDBxRTFaMkU&authuser=0
    live view:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2ODMwVPUPxudDJzczBCYmVIMDQ&authuser=0
    playback:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2ODMwVPUPxuX2RGcVZ6MjVLcEk&authuser=0

    so the live view won't reflect it, the histogram potentially won't show it, and the highlight/shadow won't show it... :dash2:

    as a side note, one of the other threads that discussed this someone noted that shooting in 'natural' mode shifted their histogram to the right as well versus shooting in ienhance. is there a mode that doesn't shift at all?
     
  15. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    That's one and a half stops brighter than the previous, so being overexposed is expected given the scene. I have absolutely no clue why it's metering like that though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    Are you sure live view boost isn't on? The only way I've really found to replicate it is if it's on (in which case it isn't wysiwyg, unless using strobes).

    Settings -> D. Disp -> second menu -> "Live view boost" to off.
     
  17. 808N8

    808N8 Mu-43 Regular

    34
    May 6, 2015
    Hawaii
    Weird, right? I'm beginning to think this is just a 'quirk' in how Olympus bodies operate. I think if I had been using Olympus from the start I wouldn't have known any different and thought nothing of it.

    Live View Boost is off by default, and I also just double-checked it... it's off.
     
  18. budeny

    budeny Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 4, 2014
    Boulder, CO
    How does your SuperControl panel look like?
     
  19. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    It's certainly quirky... live view seems to look at it's sample of the scene and calculate an ideal exposure which can be outside of the range the camera can actually take a picture at. Because it doesn't actually use the settings you're actually going to take the picture using into account the over/under and histogram don't always reflect the actual exposure, hence the under/over indicators not being accurate... (If the camera would reach it's maximum shutter speed then the exposure compensation would need to be set at however many EV the scene was actually metered over what the camera can do for the EVF to be accurate).

    I'm not entirely sure why it does it, it's bizarre... only happens using automatic modes, for manual it uses the actual shutter speed and aperture you're going to use for its calculations and over/under exposure and histogram are correct.
     
  20. 808N8

    808N8 Mu-43 Regular

    34
    May 6, 2015
    Hawaii