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E-M10 BW JPEGs

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by dixeyk, Mar 23, 2016.

  1. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    25902772631_f8c9be1647_b.
    shroomus
    by kevin dixey, on Flickr

    25775251242_04290582c9_b.
    Appeal
    by kevin dixey, on Flickr

    [​IMG]
    splash
    by kevin dixey, on Flickr

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    Ripe
    by kevin dixey, on Flickr

    Been shooting the E-M10 in BW JPEG mode. Please no lectures about how I should be using RAW I use RAW extensively I just wanted to play around with shooting JPEGs. Overall I am quite happy with them. They actually have a good deal of latitude (for a JPEG) to tweak them in PP if you so desire. If you plan to do PP then RAW is really not much different than JPEG in terms of time spent. I have however found that not all RAW converters are created equal.

    The top image was shot with the Konica 40/1.8 and the rest with the P20/1.7. The native lens is sharper and has better contrast but the adapted lens has a quality to it that is quite nice. For the most part I prefer the way adapted lenses render but still use the P20 more for the convenience of it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
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  2. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    I know I've brought this up before much to the chagrin of folks but I don't think that the difference between RAW and JPEG (set to SF) on the E-M10 (I can't speak to other m43 camera because I only own the one) is as big as I have seen on other cameras. Whether that's because the JPEGs are so good or the RAW is not so good I have no idea nor do I care. The end result is that no matter which you choose the results are very good. I'd put Olympus JPEGs in the same category as the ones form Fuji. I tend to like the color better on the Fuji but I think the Olympus ones look sharper at their default settings. Either way, it's tough to find much fault with them.

    I would feel comfortable shooting either leaning toward RAW if I want more options and JPEG when I am using an entirely mobile workflow. It just depends on the situation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
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  3. RAH

    RAH Mu-43 Veteran

    270
    Dec 1, 2013
    New Hampshire
    Rich
    I think you may be missing one of the points of shooting RAW when you are using B&W mode for your jpgs (or at least the point as I see it).

    Using B&W mode on your camera is very useful for getting a feel for B&W because you can see a sample of the results you will be getting right on the screen. So it helps you picture the contrast differences between different objects in the scene, etc.

    But, in post-processing, you want to have the ability to fine-tune your B&W results (for example, using the channel mixer) based on the colors in the actual scene. This gives you enormous ability to change the B&W results based on the colors that are present. If you shot only in jpg mode (as opposed to raw+jpg), you wouldn't have this ability.

    In other words, even if you are completely happy with the quality of jpg images coming out of your camera, and don't give a hoot about raw, when you are shooting in B&W mode, raw+jpg is the only way I know of to get both a color image for later PP but at the same time see a b&w view on the camera screen.

    Maybe they need b&w-jpg + jpg mode on these cameras to give you both a color and b&w image without resorting to raw.
     
  4. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    I probably wasn't entirely clear when I first posted. I have used RAW extensively and have been for quite some time and I shoot mostly BW. I just found the Olympus JPEGs to be really good. They are much more pleasing than other JPEGs I am used to and offer a good deal of latitude more tweak-ability than I was expecting. It's not as much as RAW but based on my experienced shooting RAW with other cameras the differences are less than you might think.

    I did this mostly out of curiosity. I wanted to see if I could get the images I liked without shooting RAW. Typically I do a lot of PP and I have used the flexibility of RAW (don't much see the point of RAW+JPEG) but it's nice to know that I can also get where I want using JPEG. I think part of it for me is that I see shooting with JPEG as the photographic equivalent of working without a net. I have certainly benefitted from being able to rescue images because I shot RAW but I kinda like the notion of not having so much flexibility in that respect. It makes me work harder to get things right the first time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
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  5. CWRailman

    CWRailman Mu-43 Top Veteran

    562
    Jun 2, 2015
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Denny
    These adjustments you mention are not exclusive to RAW files. The same adjustments you make to a RAW file are applicable to a JPG image using Lightroom. The only difference is that you do not have the same latitude of adjustment such as dynamic range when working with JPG that you have when working with RAW. However sometimes the results gotten from JPG, by someone who does not use software to process their images on a regular basis, is better than if they started with a RAW file. Many instructors start students off on a JPG image before switching them over to a RAW file.
     
  6. RAH

    RAH Mu-43 Veteran

    270
    Dec 1, 2013
    New Hampshire
    Rich
    Yes, what you say is true, Denny, if you have your camera set to give you COLOR jpgs. But from what I understood from the OP, he had his camera set to give him B&W jpgs. Obviously, if your jpg does not have any color (already converted to B&W in the camera), you cannot adjust the B&W conversion by using the color info in it in PP. I agree that you can still do some adjusting to a B&W jpg in PP, but once you have lost the color info, you have much less latitude.

    In case you are thinking that I am a RAW file snob, I am not. I usually shoot jpg only. Meanwhile, I have been looking in my E-M10 manual and am getting the impression that it can show you a B&W screen live view while saving to COLOR jpgs (just by changing the screen to B&W). On my Canon DSLRs, this is not possible (you have to shoot in B&W jpg mode (or raw+jpg) to see a B&W live view). So perhaps you can have your color jpgs and B&W live view with the latest mirrorless cameras.

    Anyway, once you have lost the color info from your jpgs, you are limited in the amount of B&W adjustment you can do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016
  7. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    Olde Tyme film photographers who shot B&W film, know about using color filters, their effects and pre-visualization. Olympus and Panasonic cameras have those color filter settings in their B&W JPG configurations. It may not give the range of effects that Channel Mixer does, but it isn't chopped liver either.
     
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  8. CWRailman

    CWRailman Mu-43 Top Veteran

    562
    Jun 2, 2015
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Denny
    Yes you can adjust B&W by using the color sliders. For an example of how this is done check out the following video. Though he is using Silver Efex, the same can be done in Lightroom. Go to about the 10 minute mark and note how he impacts the contrast and intensity of individual B&W zones of the B&W image by adjusting the color sliders. It was from this video that I learned this trick. By the way, I always shoot color and if desired convert to B&W using software as this can easily be done by pushing all the color sliders to 0 saturation which results is a smoother transition between tons then when using a color to B&W converter. I never shoot B&W in camera. No need to shoot RAW unless you need the extra latitude of dynamic range.
     
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  9. jdcope

    jdcope Mu-43 Regular

    93
    May 21, 2015
    Oregon
    That was a great video, thanks for sharing!
     
  10. CWRailman

    CWRailman Mu-43 Top Veteran

    562
    Jun 2, 2015
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Denny
  11. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    I was shooting in BW JPEG. I have done quite a few BW conversion in Tonality CC from RAW files and that is nice because you get a lot of flexibility but I like the simplicity of shooting BW JPEGs. It's not like I had the option of RAW when I shot BW film.
     
  12. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    I was along time Silver Efex Pro user and it's a terrific tool (and free to boot). A few years ago i switched to Tonality and really like it quite a bit. Even when you shoot in BW it has quite lot of tools to fine tune your image and the Olympus JPEGs seem to take it pretty well.


    .
     
  13. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
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  14. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    26336987945_19508be0ca_b.
    gaping maw
    by kevin dixey, on Flickr

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    spirit
    by kevin dixey, on Flickr

    The last few E-M10 shots for a while. Doing some traveling and leaving it home. I've yet to get to the point where I feel like I can reliably get images I like from it. It'll come with more time in hand but that'll just have to happen later. I'm close but not there yet.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2016
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  15. PakkyT

    PakkyT Mu-43 Top Veteran

    764
    Jun 20, 2015
    New England
    I like those last two a lot. One of my big beefs with a lot of people's "black & white" photos these days is they often never have any real blacks or real whites in them. Everything is sort of a blob of grey scale, if you know what I mean.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2016
  16. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    Yeah, I have been struggling with gray blob syndrome. It's part of what I have been trying to get away from with the Olympus (although not all that successfully so far). I like the one of the the cigarette pack in the grass. That one is largely SOOC (I added some vignetting and tiny bit of sharpening) the top image of the tulip however got a fair amount of work in PP. There's a lot of customizability for it on the camera so I figure I'll hit on the right combination at some point. I feel like I'm getting closer.