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E-M1 vs 5D MkII

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by OzRay, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    A while back I did an aerial photography job for a friend, which I wrote up here: http://australianimage.com.au/wordpress/?p=517.

    In a nutshell I was shooting alongside a Canon 5D MkII photographer and both of us were using the same to FOV lenses. I was mainly taking stills, while the Canon user was solely taking video using a gyro stabiliser system etc:

    jayrow2.

    I got a call from my friend today that he'd received the video (unedited) that the videographer had taken and he was somewhat disappointed. What he's looked at so far is jittery, often out of focus, and not always well framed, compared to the couple of videos that I'd taken but, as I said to him, check the rest and there may be better stuff in there. As I was the stills photography, the video I took was really just some testing that I wanted to do, but if I'd been in the choice seat and the only photographer, I would have been taking stills and video, and I think I could have carried through the same quality throughout.

    It's funny how a relatively simple and inexpensive system like the E-M1 and 14-35mm f2/35-100mm f2 lenses (they could potentially have been any of the m4/3 lenses), can produce better results than a significantly more expensive setup. Now I'm not sure how well versed the photographer was with the gear he had (the gyro stuff was rented), nor do I know whether he was a professional videographer, but clearly things didn't perform as well as you'd expect. So if there's one thing that comes out of this, the lesson is that no one, but no one, should be dismissive of the m4/3 system.

    As an aside, the company that I was photographing (the guys exiting the helicopter) were shown some reduced size images of the day and were so impressed, especially as they don't have anything like those shots, that they want to use them in their PR. To boot, Pelican Australia has seen the photos (showing the blue Pelican Cases being used on the platform) and want to also use the photos for their PR. It's kind of a pleasing feeling when you get things right, so that what you've done carries far wider than you expected.

    jayrow0627lr.

    I now have to delve back into my Australian Commercial and Media Photographers manual to see exactly how I should approach this dual request for usage rights.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    Well done and congratulations

    :)
     
  3. RamblinR

    RamblinR Mu-43 Top Veteran

    545
    Aug 16, 2012
    Sunshine Coast, Qld Australia
    Maria
    IBIS is simply amazing for video.
     
  4. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Thanks. I sometimes think that people get despondent with m4/3 and believe that they need FF to achieve great results, because all the latest talk is about FF. But when it boils down to tin tacks, FF isn't the panacea that many believe it is. No one should be afraid to take their m4/3 gear out and compete with the FF users.
     
  5. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran

    The main benefit of FF is the extra DoF. This may or may not matter, and, for me, is really a negligible difference when compared to the larger formats out there. As always, I think it's best to pick the camera system that's right for you, rather than the marketing and hype that is most pleasing to your ears.

    Z...
     
  6. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I suspect that you meant m4/3 with respect to extra DoF. What I guess I'm really getting at is that, with m4/3, there are really no limitations as to what you can do with the system; in some ways it can be more capable than say FF. It's certainly versatile and flexible, and can produce quality results. If one's life revolves around nothing more than the utmost shallow depth of field, then perhaps m4/3 is not for them.
     
  7. Drdave944

    Drdave944 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    698
    Feb 2, 2012
    The Canon 5D MKll is really out of date in the video department. I have seen pros using the5D MKIII. Now they have come out with the 7D MKII which is supposed to be a really good in video camera. I am glad to know that the EM I is a good video camera too.
     
  8. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    Personally I feel its the photographer and not the gear ...

    Sometimes the clients seem to think if you have a bigger thing the mojo is better. We have that in the media production unit where I worked. A couple of years ago we were looking at a new camera, I suggested a GH 2, they were oogling a 70D. The big EOS thing with a motor drive looking battery pack (and an APS sensor not even full frame?!? ) is considered the de rigueur tool, and the GH2 was rejected because it looked too small.

    Meh
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. kinlau

    kinlau Mu-43 Top Veteran

    836
    Feb 29, 2012
    Other than the fact that the other guy had a 5Dm2, I really don't think he was using the right tool for the job. Pulling focus with two hands on a gyro in a heli seems not to be a particularly effective way to work.
     
  10. tomO2013

    tomO2013 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    799
    Oct 28, 2013
    Even today this is somewhat of a moot issue.... want more DOF, just shoot stopped down to a higher F stop to get the image captured as sharp and contrasty as possible... then literally use an app like Alien Skin Exposure 6 (Bokeh 2 embedded), Topaz Lens Effects, Photoshop etc.... to apply a lens bokeh effect to your image. You can have a it as creamy or as harsh as you like and you can simulate many different types of lenses. I've a friend who shoots a D800 at weddings and does this - primarily because he is terrified of missing the defining moment for the sake of green screening the background.

    I attempted to do this once or twice myself to see that it could be done. However with glass like the Nocticron and Voigtlanders I've never found myself wishing for even more DOF than what the system gives me already. In fact I've been victim once or twice to shooting with too shallow a DOF on the m43 format and ruining a nice shot by only getting one eye in focus with the 25mm 1.4 Pana Leica. Often times I stop down a little to get things in focus.

    At the extremes of print sizes I can see a good reason for small format or medium format. Every so often I have wished for more resolution and 14bit RAW files - this is for a B&W detailed circuit board print at 30 X 40 where the gradations between blacks and greys could be even smoother. But I suspect that really what I was looking for was just more resolution. At moderate A3 size printing I'm sure I couldn't tell the difference. Also it's very rare that I attempt to print to extremely large size from a print cost and wall realestate perspective. Really it's only at the extremes of use that I would grab the canon - e.g. fast moving indoor action in low light. The new Samsung NX1 might be nice in this regard too.....

    Congratulations on your work. As another poster already said, the photographer makes all the difference these days, not the gear. They still don't have a camera that can automatically compose, light a scene, and intelligently detect the defining moment of the shot.
     
  11. BAXTING

    BAXTING Mu-43 Top Veteran

    806
    Aug 5, 2012
    Los Angeles SFV, CA
    Bradley
    Yes well done!

    Those are some amazing images.
     
  12. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I was kind of surprised that the Canon and the accessories didn't perform as well as I thought they would. I checked the website that makes the gyro stabiliser (http://www.tylerminigyro.com/) and it's designed for aerial work. An example of it in use: http://aerialfilmaustralia.com.au/portfolio/tyler-mini-gyro-extreme-demonstration/, and the situation doesn't appear to be in any way more extreme than what we were doing, maybe even less so, considering that our flight path was in a somewhat hazardous area (especially for the other helicopter). And the camera used in the video was much larger than the Canon.

    Yes, it could be the photographer using the gear, but issues like being out of focus and jittering etc should have been eliminated by the gear being used. If Olympus ever implement 4K in the E-M1 or subsequent cameras, it's going to be an awesome aerial camera in anyone's terms. I've been toying around with trying out some other forms of video say from a car to see how well it handles, might have to do that and see how it performs. I think it would be great to do something from the back of a bike around some of our winding roads.
     
  13. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Pretty much this - the crop factor of the M43 sensor does work to my benefit for my type of shooting, and image quality is excellent. I'm looking to print up some of my shots in the form of a photobook, and also a few framed prints, this'll be the first time I've done this for the E-M1, and I'm well and truly looking forward to seeing the results.

    Z...
     
  14. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I haven't yet printed anything large from my E-M1, but I've done plenty of excellent 17"x 22" prints from my E-1/E-3, so the E-M1 should produce outstanding results. As you probably realise, there's an incredible difference between looking at shots (even at full size) on a screen and looking at a large print of the same shot. It's kind of sad in a way that printing (especially large prints) has fallen out of favour so much, as many never get to see the true potential of their cameras.
     
  15. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    wish I had a pounds/dollar/euro for every time someone got the whole DOF argument wrong

    DOF is Depth of Field... how much is IN 'acceptable' focus at a certain distance.... larger sensors have LESS depth of field than smaller sensors for the same aperture

    EXTRA implies MORE... not LESS

    otherwise Z I totally agree with you :)

    K
     
  16. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    Hi

    sorry, didn't mean to imply a sledge on your colleague, I was just meaning that the photographer is a key component in the system and everyone seems to just focus on gear these days (and seemingly omit the skills and vision that the photographer brings along)

    pardon me
     
  17. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I didn't take it that way at all. I actually don't know the other photographer from a bar of soap and we didn't really talk a lot, as he was either engrossed in his gear or, while on the ground, talking mainly with the crew who were working from the other helicopter. I got the feeling that he knew a lot of the guys who were doing the work on the towers, so there may have been a work or other relationship involved. I had to do a lot of the pilot guidance, so that I got a reasonable view, as well as briefing the pilot as to how we wanted him to position the helicopter for the various shots. So it may well be that the other photographer didn't quite have the confidence levels for managing the situation. I'm mainly giving him the benefit of the doubt, as I may have a lot more experience in this sort of work than he did.
     
  18. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Yes, I know what this is, I was quite tired when I typed this, and initially typed extra depth of field for the M43 is a benefit for me, but decided to change my wording to focus on the benefit of shallower DoF of the FF sensor, but anyway, meh, I'm sure you know what I mean...

    I can still get a narrow enough DoF for my purposes with the right lenses, just a matter of knowing how to use what you have for what you want.

    Z...
     
  19. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    I don't say my m4/3 gear produces better results than my Nikon gear, but I'm very confident with the m4/3s and believe the weight and size savings significantly contributes to better images on my part. I had to laugh a little with calling the 14-35 and 35-100mm inexpensive! LOL

    For me it is more than just "kind of pleasing" when things go right and lead to more than expected. For me it is almost a level euphoria! I've shot several jobs with the E-M1 setup and had the customer comment or question why I was not using the D800 as before. But after receiving the prints they have given me even more work!
     
  20. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    I whole heartedly agree and it is one of the reasons I'm reluctant to post images. Just no comparisons to print.

    You really should take a few of your best photos and get them printed out at 30" on the long edge. I have a local printer that prefers to work with my files but I have also upsized them 150% in Photoshop and sent them to AdoramaPix, Whitehouse, and a couple of other print makers with no issues. Take the one with Pelican boxes and get done at 30" long, then take it to Pelican and see if they'll hang it. You may find a whole new avenue of selling corporate photos!