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DxOMark: Nikon V3 not as good as E-PM2 or GM1

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by madogvelkor, Mar 20, 2014.

  1. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    Why is this even a surprise? ITS a 1" sensor.
     
  2. TheRenaissanceMan

    TheRenaissanceMan Mu-43 Regular

    84
    Oct 11, 2013
    The 1" RX10(0) sensor is right on mu43's heels, performance-wise. What's saddening is that their enthusiast model has now failed to impress enthusiasts right out of the gate--again. Nikon just don't seem to get the mirrorless audience.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Mu-43 mobile app
     
  3. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium

    do you actually take photographs? or just obsess on numbers?....

    K
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. TheRenaissanceMan

    TheRenaissanceMan Mu-43 Regular

    84
    Oct 11, 2013
    Ouch. My experience with the RX100 is first hand, as is my disappointment with the Nikon V2. So is my disappointment in hearing that Nikon's stripped out the viewfinder, left out 24p video (again), and failed to catch up to Sony on sensor quality not understandable?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Mu-43 mobile app
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    I have and use an RX100. But it isn't as good as my E-M1, although the resolutions advantage does help. Perfect compact camera as far as I'm concerned though.
     
  6. TheRenaissanceMan

    TheRenaissanceMan Mu-43 Regular

    84
    Oct 11, 2013
    Definitely not as good, but damn close in most situations. What's stopping Nikon paying Sony to stick that sensor in a Nikon 1? Do that in a body with built-in EVF, come out with a couple more well-priced primes, and the system might actually attract some comverts.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Mu-43 mobile app
     
  7. GFFPhoto

    GFFPhoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2013
    Nikon uses sony sensors in most of their cameras. Like Olympus, they are primarily an optics company and do not manufacture their own sensors.

    http://www.nikonprecision.com/about/index.html
     
  8. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    The Sony sensor and the Nikon V3's sensor look indistinguishable when it comes to noise, until ISO 3200, when Sony's hardware noise reduction algorithm comes into play. Both are about 1 stop behind m4/3, which is exactly what you'd expect for a sensor 1/2 the size. The Sony does seem to have almost comparable dynamic range.

    I'd assume the reason why Nikon sources their 1" sensors from Aptina rather than Sony has to do with the on-sensor PDAF and readout speeds.

    While it's true that they don't have their own fabrication facilities, they do design their own sensors when it suits their purposes (e.g. the D4S and the D3100). Olympus to my knowledge does neither the design, nor the manufacture.

    It is possible to do both, you know. It's even possible not to reply to threads you're not interested in.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  9. John M Flores

    John M Flores Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 7, 2011
    Somerville, NJ
    The V3's killer app is speed. AF and FPS are likely to be unlike anything else available in the mirrorless world. So if you're interested in photographing fast moving objects outdoors (birds, planes, children) but not interested in carrying around a big DSLR and bigger lenses, the V3 should be seriously considered.

    If you're taking pictures of other things and/or often in low light, then there are better cameras.
     
  10. Reflector

    Reflector Mu-43 Veteran

    406
    Aug 31, 2013
    If you're a Nikon veteran or if you're Thom Hogan you'd understand why current Nikon really doesn't care about what you think about them, heck they don't even care if you *are* a dedicated Nikon system user disillusioned with the recent actions Nikon has taken.


    But at least you can stick a Tamron 150-600mm on the V3 and play with the 2.7x ratio on the newer sensor with greater pixel density and combine that with the AF and speed.
     
  11. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    For a company who doesn't know what they are doing with the Nikon 1 system and to be able, in 2013, to be #2 in sales in North America only by trailing behind Sony is to me doing all the right things. Panasonic and Olympus (#3 and #4) are not even remotely close to Sony and Nikon in 2013 sales! What does this say about Nikon who got only a 1" sensor, while Sony's got 3 different sizes of sensors. It means Nikon only cares about maintaining or superceeding Sony as the #1 in sales.

    Companies ONLY care about who is buying their products and what is helping them make money. It's not here to make Thom Hogan or you happy.
    If Olympus is making you happy; that's great. Nikon 1 is making a lot of North Americans happy as they are able to be in the #2 and wanting to be in the same spot for 2014 as well. That goes a lot without saying that what they are doing is basically to maintain or increase market share.

    The mirrorless market in North America is always worse than DSLRs. It is not uncommon to find stores that deal with used equipment that a used 6 year old DSLR will outsell a 2 yr mirrorless camera irregardless of brand because that's what people want. People basically want speed and convenience, speed in the AF to track their kids around and image quality mainly comes second. I've shot with the Nikon 1 systems with the FT-1, mainly for reach and sports and I can see a benefit to those people who want reach and speed. The AF is really fast even with the FT-1 adapter, but the new 70-300 lens would be great. No need FT-1 and a 70-200 VR lens to get the reach.
     
  12. Rooz

    Rooz Mu-43 Regular

    59
    Dec 13, 2010
    I'm sure dxo mark do a great job quantifying sensor performance. I have used them as a reference point in the past.

    I just bought a nikon v3. It is not comparable to either my fx or m43 system. It's in it's own niche and it is brilliant. AF hit rate of moving objects embarrasses my em1 and outperforms my d800e. IQ isn't up to either of my other systems but it's more than acceptable...it's damn good with iso perfomance better than my old d300.

    Every system has it's place, this is no different. For anyone hesitating cos of the dxo mark, like I did for a long time. Don't. The 1 system has exceeded my expectations in every aspect. A welcome addition to my collection.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. ptan55

    ptan55 Mu-43 Regular

    45
    Dec 18, 2011
    Amherst, NY
    I agree that with your assessment that Nikon seems to be losing its way....

    Definitely with the 1 series.
    Sure they can be arrogant and not listen to customers.
    Then dont complain about this:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/08/us-nikon-earnings-idUSBRE9770EH20130808

    What's with the Micro-SD card slot on the V3?

    I'm sick of it, and getting out of the Nikon 1 System.
     
  14. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    My friend has a J1 and we share photos quite a bit. Since I got the Stylus 1 I've been surprised how often it seems as good as the J1 in terms of jpegs, even at the pixel level, AF speed differences noted. Of course, I've also been reminded how important RAW processing is for the smaller sensors.

    Just to note, this provides another tidbit as to why the E-PM2 is such an incredible deal.
     
  15. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    If they did that the price of the V3 would've been too high. Oops...
     
  16. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    I agree with this completely. But for me it quickly becomes a budgetary thing. While the V1 post-price crash was the value king for action shooting the V3 is way too expensive for what is basically a niche need for me. It would have to be pushing the boundaries of what a 1" sensor can do across the board for that price to work.

    Shopping used, you can buy a V1 kit with 10-30 and 30-110 zooms + and an E-PM2 with 17/1.8 and 45/1.8 primes all for the price of a new V3 kit (camera, VF, 10-30 lens). A little crazy.
     
  17. Rooz

    Rooz Mu-43 Regular

    59
    Dec 13, 2010
    that article was in August 2013. at a time when Olympus was, (an still is), in the red. Panasonic going backwards and even the mighty canon sales and profits with very little growth. so a bit disingenuous and out of context.
    the micro sd is annoying but its hardly a deal breaker. i bought a 16gb lexar 90mb/s card for $30AUD...it stays in the camera, problem solved. there are lots of little things that are annoying, but lots of great things aswell...in other words...like every other system. if they release a couple more lens', say a 13/1.4 and a 70-200/2.8 i'll be over the moon.

    way too expensive ? absolutely, RRP is a bit ridiculous. i got my v3 on sale for $899AUD with the new zoom and a 10/2.8, sold the 10/2.8 for $150 so i end up paying $749 for the camera and the PZ lens. thats a good price for the camera. cheaper than when i bought the ep5. not a bargain, but its justifiable purely cos of the superb AF, 2nd to none metering and the new touch screen. loving the VF aswell. i sold my ep5 and VF4 straight after i ran the V3 and VF for a day. IQ not as good as the Oly, (but i have an EM1 so im ok), but in most other respects, its a better performing camera for me cos i run multiple systems.
     
  18. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    Tried going all in when the Nikon V1 prices dropped. Got dual V1 bodies, the FT-1 adapter, 10-30, 10 & 18.5 lenses. First the positive, the AF was great, build quality solid and the menus while a little annoying were not a deal breaker. Though after a couple months with the system, I dumped it and went back to M43. As much potential as I though the system had, I didn't like the sensor, the output of the FT-1 with telephoto glass was only good at the short and mid-range (better off just cropping with the D800) and the quality shooting wide open with adapted glass was poor even when using quality N coated lenses. The sensor was also poor in low light and images always needed sharpening.

    I don't care how fast the V3 shoots or how much better the handling is, after viewing hi-res samples from the V3, I see very little improvement in image quality. In my mind M43 is the perfect balance of size, image quality and performance. It's only a matter of time when other camera makers catch up in the AF department and where does that leave Nikon...still with a smallish sensor. M43 is a small sensor as well, but image quality is good enough where I can easily shoot side-by-side with my DSLR gear using my M43 equipment for b-roll or even as the main bodies where size and weight are a priority. Plus Nikon isn't instilling much confidence with haptic design decisions that lack consistency.

    If AF acquisition and continuous focusing is your priority in a small mirrorless package, the V3 is the only game in town. For everything else, I'd easily choose M43 as the better well-rounded, package.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. John M Flores

    John M Flores Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 7, 2011
    Somerville, NJ
    Color me jealous! The V3 looks like a great evolution of the V1/V2 and the sensor will just improve in subsequent models.

    As evidenced by the recent Sony and Panasonic releases, I think the 1" sensor is going places.