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DX format to m43'rds Trend- valid?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by digitalandfilm, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. digitalandfilm

    digitalandfilm Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jul 18, 2011
    I can only speak for myself.. I switched from 4/3rds, to DX, and now m43'rds.

    READ ON at Thom Hogan's Nikon Camera, DSLR, Lens, Flash, and Book site
     
    • Like Like x 6
  2. zapatista

    zapatista Mu-43 Top Veteran

    668
    Mar 19, 2012
    Denver, Colorado, USA
    Mike
    Coming from the other way...

    The D600 looks really good to me. Then again, I'd rather spend ~$2k on the 12-35mm and 75mm. I've never used crop sensor DSLR's (more than very casually). I've been looking at alot of my Sony Nex-7 files & Nex 5-N files and really can't see any discernible IQ difference with the OM-D/G3 files. The D5100 & D7000 use the same basic 16mp Sony sensor. If I was going to "upgrade" at this point....well I see no point in going APS-C.
     
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  3. With_Eyes_Unclouded

    With_Eyes_Unclouded Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 17, 2012
    Vassilios
    Thanks for the article. It isn't surprising that this trend exists. If you have a look in this thread in here: https://www.mu-43.com/f42/anyone-dumped-their-dslr-gear-favor-om-d-30391/ you will read reports from a number of people switching mainly from APS-C sensor DSLRs (fewer have switched from FF).

    Canon is taking the major hit in this instance. At least Nikon has a D7000 and their newer APS-C cameras use very competend sensors at quite aggressive prices. All Canon has in the APS-C department is micro-waved food with an unhealthy dose of ketchup on top.

    This is not to say that APS-C DSLRs shall stop selling overnight. In fact, martket inertia and non complete consumer awareness about where :43: stands today, shall make sure they sell into the foreseable future.
     
  4. MAubrey

    MAubrey Photographer

    Jul 9, 2012
    Bellingham, WA
    Mike Aubrey
    I've always wondered this.

    If you want fast primes, there's really not much choice for DX at all beyond that handful of lenses that kind of its both, but there's still no wide angle DX prime
     
  5. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Where does this put APS-C (DX) mirrorless bodies in 2yrs or so when technologies mature and more lenses for those systems are available?
     
  6. With_Eyes_Unclouded

    With_Eyes_Unclouded Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 17, 2012
    Vassilios
    The question is, will there be a discernible advantage in an APS-C mirrorless camera over a :43: one. I guess it has become clear that, as far as the sensor in concerned, there are practically no advantages. Apart from the slightly deeper DOF which is a debatable issue.

    But since we are (again!) talking about systems, the answer can't be clear cut IMHO. My guess would be they will be very close, if Sony and Fuji (in particular) keep investing in their mirrorless APS-C camera systems.

    It also remains to be seen, if Panasonic decides to put their efforts more on :43: cinema cameras. I'll dare to predict this will be the case. Already, reports of the Black Magic camera, for instance, are very favorable and, let's be honest, cinema cameras are where the money is.
     
  7. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Then there's the Foveon sensor that's larger than the MFT but smaller than APS-C

    Relevent if you don't need to shoot in pitch black conditions & you are also a strobist :smile:
     
  8. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    From Michael Reichmann (Full Frame Wars – Part Deux):

    Indeed the strong growth of compact system cameras (MFT and NEX) has put the squeeze on reduced frame DSLRs from the other end as well. With their smaller size and lighter weight (and dedicated shorter lens mounts) these are proving to be a compelling sell, and offer similar image quality to an APS-C sized DSLR but in a more attractive package. (The NEX camera's sensors are themselves APS-C in size, and image quality from the latest generation of MFT cameras is so close that it's a quibble) so IQ is a de-minimus issue.

    Note - µ4/3 nominally has the same IQ as DX, but there are other factors. For fast moving, non-deterministic subjects and some flash items, DX is better.
     
  9. I'm going to say that I agree with you in principle. In just about every way that you can measure and compare sensors, the latest Sonys come out on top of their Canon counterparts. Pushing the boundaries of dynamic range is one of the holy grails of sensor design since it is the fundamental role of a sensor to record light and convert it to colour. It would stand to reason then that the ability to do this over the largest possible range is the mark of a good sensor, and I certainly love to see how cameras like the E-M5 and NEX-5N do this. However, when I look at the images from my Canon G1X and even my old (2008 vintage) EOS 50D, there is something undeniably pleasing about them that is different from a Sony sensor (or Panasonic sensor for that matter). I don't really know how to explain it, let alone quantify it, but it leads me to believe that their are sensor qualities that we either don't or can't measure. Of course it may just be that it is merely a matter of personal taste.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    I don't expect mirrorless cameras to kill off APS-C DSLRs for well into the forseeable future, if ever - and I wouldn't want them to, for that would represent less choice for photographers. What I do expect is that the Nikon/Canon dominance of the overall camera market will weaken as other manufacturers begin to claim a more equal share, and that in my view is a good thing.
     
  11. shizlefonizle

    shizlefonizle Mu-43 Veteran

    372
    Apr 21, 2012
    Well seeing that we're probably going to be seeing a trend in smaller and cheaper FF bodies, I can see APS-C going away. People will probably stick to MILCs or FF DSLRs or both.
     
  12. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    Honestly I think on the Nikon side, the Nikon designed D3S/D700 sensor are better than the Sony sensored Nikon bodies. I'd love for the low light smoothness of the D3S sensor in a small format.
     
  13. With_Eyes_Unclouded

    With_Eyes_Unclouded Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 17, 2012
    Vassilios
    In all fairness, I can understand what you're saying, since I have felt the same way in several non-quantifiable circumstances (e.g. music playing and recording). Honestly, I cannot explain it, but I tend to judge by results: if a specific hardware gives you as a photographer a more effective method of producing results, it's a "better" option than the next thing.

    That said, there is an objective dimension: if somebody asked my opinion on what entry/medium level DSLR to buy, I'd had to point out that Canon is currently lacking in crucial aspects (but I'd add that he/she would have to try out first if possible).
     
  14. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I also agree Nic,when I see some old pics taken with Canon 60D and Canon 550D , there is something different in them .
    bhupinder
     
  15. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    Can I gently suggest that we don't copy complete article texts from other sites? There are copyright issues at hand; an excerpted paragraph or two is usually fair use, but lifting other people's writing wholesale is not right.

    As for APSC DSLRs, they actually don't have many lenses at all. Most of their supposedly large lens selection is all full frame, and Canon's approach has been to produce things like 17-40L for full frame, which also works okay on crop sensor. The prime situation is kind of a mess for APSC.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. With_Eyes_Unclouded

    With_Eyes_Unclouded Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 17, 2012
    Vassilios
    This. ^^^

    Not to mention having APS-C specific lenses that do not perform that well, at premium glass prices, is not exactly the perfect arrangement.
     
  17. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    There are no copyright issues if the quotation is not for commercial use and attribution is given with a link to the author's site.
     
  18. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    Sorry, but that's a serious misunderstanding of copyright law.
     
  19. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    This is patently untrue. The Creative Commons licenses exist to allow exactly this sort of sharing because US copyright laws do not allow anything of the sort. "All rights reserved" does not mean "take as long as I follow some arbitrary urban legend criteria for how it's used".
     
  20. digitalandfilm

    digitalandfilm Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jul 18, 2011
    I gave full credit to the author- who has this material on a FREE blog, and certainly didn't gain or make money by re-posting an article.

    So I think you can relax and just go with the flow. :rolleyes: