DPREVIEW: An observation and a question.

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by caimi, May 24, 2013.

  1. caimi

    caimi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2012
    middle US
    Caimi caimiphotography.com
    Go to dpreview.com. Take a few minutes to observe two subforums: Leica Talk and Micro Four Thirds Talk.

    You will notice a large number of images taken with a variety of Leica cameras posted in Leica Talk.

    You will also notice that Micro Four Thirds Talk is pedominantly about gear: new gear, upcoming gear, trouble with gear, lusting after gear and so on.

    And now the question: Why?
  2. ahuyevshi

    ahuyevshi Mu-43 Veteran

    Feb 9, 2010
    Berkeley, CA
    Just check out the FujiX/Canon/Nikon forums and you'll see an even worse trend. The Leica forum becomes very similar every time there is a new model release, but I do agree that most of the posts lean towards images.

    You also have to remember because of the cost of most Leica HW, the demographic is extremely different.
  3. caimi

    caimi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2012
    middle US
    Caimi caimiphotography.com
    Agreed, Leica owners probably have more disposable income. But is that a factor in what seems to be a greater interest in images over gear? If so, why? Are wealthier people more artistic? More creative? Less hung up on the means of production and more concerned with the finished product?
  4. abepak

    abepak Mu-43 Regular

    Jan 21, 2013
    SFV, CA
    lol, probably because Leica bodies and lens are so expensive that for most people that buys a Leica, they're buying into that ONE body and maybe that ONE lens. Kinda hard to talk on and on about new gear when you aren't anywhere near being able to afford 'em.

    Micro Four Thirds on the other hand is relatively cheap in comparison to Leica. *Heck, some of the older bodies are cheap in comparison to some point and shoots, which allows for a lot of brand new (no real photography experience) users to enter. *Plus, µ4/3 is still in a stage of rapid growth, so it's natural that gear talk be prevalent, despite people who might be wish for more pictures instead.

    For a new Leica M ($6950) + Leica 50/1.4 ($3995) = $10945, I can buy an E-M5 ($999) + O17/1.8 ($499) + PL25/1.4 ($569) + O45/1.8 ($399) + O75/1.8 ($899) + Lightroom 4 ($97.99) + Photoshop CS6 ($649.99) + Einstein E640 ($499.95) + Vagabond mini ($239.95) + 2xPocketWizard Plus III (2x$149) = $5150.88 with change to spare for a second body, memory cards, more lights, more modifiers, etc...
  5. elandel

    elandel Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 16, 2010
    Milan, Italy
    They post more pictures because they want to show how skilled they are. You know you have to justify the money you spend telling yourself that you make great pictures and the output is worth evey cent spent.
  6. caimi

    caimi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2012
    middle US
    Caimi caimiphotography.com
    The cost of Leica is another issue altogether. I know: handmade blah, blah, blah. I previously owned and shot extensively Leica M8, M6 and MP and several Summicron lenses. Fine photographic tools which produced fine images but the cost was simply not justified in my mind. After that experience I still don't know what makes a Leica M9 worth $7,000.00 new other than a weak dollar in Europe and a desire to keep the image of refined exclusivity intact.
  7. spatulaboy

    spatulaboy I'm not really here Subscribing Member

    Jul 13, 2011
    North Carolina
    I don't think people churn Leicas like they do m4/3 gear. Some of you guys have a different camera every other month lol.
  8. RevBob

    RevBob Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Jun 4, 2011
    NorthWestern PA
    That may be just a weeeee bit cynical. :smile: Perhaps they are simply very satisfied with their gear and, thus, less prone to GAS. Given the reputation of Leica it follows that owners will be pleased with what they own and see little need to upgrade. After all, what's better than the best (and many do believe Leica to be the best). It's all about perception.:cool:
  9. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    After you buy a Lecia, where you gonna go next :) MF? Red for video?

    The thing I've noticed before is that many of the Leica images aren't much better or less mundane than the m43/Fuji/DSLR images.
  10. elandel

    elandel Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 16, 2010
    Milan, Italy
    Well they sure don't have all the choice we have:biggrin:
  11. elandel

    elandel Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 16, 2010
    Milan, Italy
    Infact, images are just the same, only cost more per pixel:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
  12. ahuyevshi

    ahuyevshi Mu-43 Veteran

    Feb 9, 2010
    Berkeley, CA
    No, what I meant was anybody who buys a Leica doesn't need to fill forums with "Which lens next" or "Compare X to Y", they bought a Leica because A) Gear Heads with way too much disposable income or B) They know what they want, bought what they want and would rather be out shooting than talking about it.

    I had an M8 hated it not because I was a gear head but because using it didn't appeal to me as much as my M6. Leica Digital is just ok, nothing to write home about but some people are brand loyal. A rangefinder is unique and fun to shoot, but unless you have disposable income the M9 IQ is just ok and not worth the money imo
  13. rich9cinti

    rich9cinti Mu-43 Veteran

    Mar 23, 2013
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I have to agree with RevBob on this. With :43: it's driven by newest technology and the demands of the enthusiast users. Oly and Pana are smart like that :tongue: On a similar note, there's lots of movement in regards to new bodies and lenses within the :43: world so there's much more talk about equipment and what's coming up or what to buy to fulfill GAS. Just my take.
  14. caimi

    caimi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2012
    middle US
    Caimi caimiphotography.com
    I can recall having breakfast one early morning at a Pennsylvania Inn several years ago while on vacation when an older man walked in, sat down at the next table and set down a Leica camera (I could never tell which model). There it sat during the entire time he ate his breakfast and read his paper. And I couldn't take my eyes off of it.

    My wife would say to me , " Do you want to go to the museum today or shopping?"

    "Camera, " I would reply. And she'd look at me like I was nuts.

    This scenario went on for a week. Exactly the same way. In came the gentleman with the Leica. He sat at his usual table, plunked down his Leica, and enjoyed his breakfast and his paper. He never fiddled with it. Never fondled it. Never dusted off the lens. Never checked the battery. He simply ignored it. But I imagined him out on photographic adventures everyday; his stunning images enroute to National Geographic while mine went straight to a shoebox in the hall closet.

    Finally, after a week of this, as I was leaving the restaurant I said something like, "Nice camera." I may have drooled a bit also, I can't remember.

    The man looked up from his paper, set down his cup of coffee and, for the longest few moments, just stared at me.

    Then he looked down at the camera and, more to the camera than to me, repeated my words, "Nice camera."

    He looked up at me again and said, "Uhhh, do you think you could fetch me some fresh coffee?"

    What else could I say but, "Regular or decaf?"
  15. caimi

    caimi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2012
    middle US
    Caimi caimiphotography.com

    I liked the M6 better than the M8 and the MP. It was something tactile that I can't exactly describe or understand but I can remember it being my favorite Leica of the three.
  16. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman Subscribing Member

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    well creative people are more likely to be more concerned with the finished product. Thats what matters to a creative person.

    Sometimes creativity is inspired by the tools you use.. sometime creative people invest in those tools that are deemed to be 'the best'.

    I am sure a sizeable part of Leicas sales is are to people with a greater amount of disposable income than creativity ... but that I am sure is the same for every camera maker

    Personally I am lucky.. I have access to pretty much the best leica offers... without the outlay - my partner is heavily into leica.

    The lenses are without question stunning.. and the rangefinder experience has its merits...but they are a generation or so behind on the whole sensor/operating system aspect of digital photograph.

    I would have to have been a lot luckier to get this shot on the OMD because of shutter lag and not being to see out of the frame

    L1001133 by kevinparis, on Flickr

    On the other hand in a dark belgian bar I gave up on the leica M9 and resorted to the OMD... but in the end they both produced pleasing ( to me ) images.
    L1001370 by kevinparis, on Flickr

    P5150127 by kevinparis, on Flickr

    In terms of gear, you pretty much will get better quality the more you pay... but at the end of the day a camera is just a tool YOU use to take a photograph ....and its the photograph that counts...not the tool

  17. ccunningham

    ccunningham Mu-43 Veteran

    Jul 23, 2010
    Accepting that your statement is true, my question would be:
    What percentage of that large number are really good images? What percentage are great?
  18. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    You mean their obligatory cat photos are just as mediocre as the ones that everybody else posts? :biggrin:

  19. ahuyevshi

    ahuyevshi Mu-43 Veteran

    Feb 9, 2010
    Berkeley, CA
    Agreed... Love my M6
  20. Fmrvette

    Fmrvette This Space For Rent

    May 26, 2012
    Detroit, Michigan
    Simply put, one cannot boast about one's Leica equipment (to whom would one boast? I mean, of course, "to whom" in the sense of people that matter, not the hoi polloi). It simply isn't done, old boy.

    One cannot modify one's Leica equipment; any commercially available add-on would be a detriment, not an enhancement, to the machine. One would sooner put mud flaps on one's Rolls Royce.

    One cannot broadcast to one's peers that one has found a better price than retail (good heavens! The very thought makes one shudder!).

    The only thing left to do, once one procures a Leica machine, is to make photographs.

    Or, perhaps, let it lie on the breakfast table while one sends lesser endowed guests to fetch more coffee (please use a serving tray, and try not to unduly jostle the cream - there's a good lad!).

    With tongue firmly in cheek...