Dpreview: “Nikon’s 1 system – it’s not dead, it’s just sleeping”

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by panamike, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. panamike

    panamike Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jul 5, 2016
    Lincolnshire UK
  2. TNcasual

    TNcasual Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Dec 2, 2014
    Knoxville, TN
    Interesting.

    Now for something completely off topic: Why is it with people speculating about the Nikon FF mirrorless that they demand that any such camera must have the current F mount? The whole idea behind mirrorless is NO MIRROR. This shortens the flange distance for the potential of a more compact design. An F mount mirrorless would have nearly 3 centimeters (if we take Leica SL-mount as a benchmark) of empty space.
     
  3. ralf-11

    ralf-11 Mu-43 Veteran

    362
    Jan 16, 2017
    Let's say "hibernating"

    Nikon has lost at least some photographers to m43 due to the way they screwed up the N One system.
    The are not coming back.
     
  4. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    I think in order for FF mirrorless to be done right you'll need a large diameter mount. For example M43 has a large mount in proportion to the sensor and lenses are sized quite small. The Sony FE mount is small in comparison to the sensor forcing lenses to be designed similar to SLR glass with a long flange distance and the aid of software correction. Part of the beauty of the F mount though is the backwards compatibility. Also Nikon is releasing all-electronic lenses now referred to as AF-P, which I believe will be future proof for an upcoming mirrorless system.

    As a Nikon shooter, I can honestly go either way. Though I'd probably lean towards a new mount and an F-mount adapter with full 100% compatibility. Mainly because I would love to have options for different lenses and part of the allure of mirrorless is to adapt!
     
  5. TNcasual

    TNcasual Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Dec 2, 2014
    Knoxville, TN
    To me, this is the only logical path for Nikon. The new camera must have a new mount that can accept new lenses ($$$ from users) and be packaged with an F mount adapter ($$$ from legacy users.)
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. PakkyT

    PakkyT Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2015
    New England
    Couldn't they just do the same thing as Panny and Oly and release the Micro-F mount mirrorless camera? New lenses for the system would be micro-F and the old F mount could be mounted with a simple MMF-esque type adapter.
     
  7. TNcasual

    TNcasual Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Dec 2, 2014
    Knoxville, TN
    Yes, that is what I am saying. It's just that whenever I see the Nikon FF mirrorless speculation on other sites, the vast majority of comments are demanding that it must be only F Mount, nothing else. To me that is silly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. PakkyT

    PakkyT Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2015
    New England
    Ah. Yes that would be silly. All you would have to do is get your micro-F to F "MMF" adapter and GLUE it into the new Nikon mirrorless and, whola! only F mount! :eek-31:
     
  9. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Legend

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Yet somehow, Sony manages to be just as long without a mirror box. Also, notice how the mirror box doesn't extend beyond the grip of the Nikon camera. So from a pack-volume perspective, with or without the mirror box, it's going to occupy the same space in your bag depth-wise. Having said that, there is some weight savings opportunities available by eliminating all of those mechanisms, but that gets a bit lost on the user once you start mounting f/2.8 FF glass on the body.

    Canon and Nikon are in a very tough spot. They have a HUGE install base with regards to EF and F mount lenses, and you don't want to alienate those customers. But at the same time, if you're going to be developing a new system, why not make the best of it and leverage as much of a savings as you can get (weight, size, materials, etc.).

    My thought all along would be to develop a new mount, but ship the first camera with an adapter so that existing glass could be used (just like we have with Olympus for 4/3 lenses). That way, your users can still use their existing glass, while at the same time it creates a new revenue stream in terms of users buying lenses for the new mount (rather than using their existing lenses like DSLR users do when they upgrade from one body to the next).

    upload_2018-4-13_16-4-55.
     
  10. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    I think long term, this makes the most financial sense. With a new mount they can sell more lenses, sell new bodies to existing DSLR owners and they can finally tap the video market without any of the constraints of Canon trying not to cannibalize their cinema line. Also they can do FF mirrorless right, by making lenses that don't rely on a long flange distance unlike Sony who are now locked in. I also trust Nikon can produce FF lenses on a larger scale and of higher quality. For example their 1.8 G prime lenses are all fantastic, cheap and very sharp. Exciting times ahead!
     
  11. TNcasual

    TNcasual Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Dec 2, 2014
    Knoxville, TN
    IIRC, Nikon also sold the V3 packaged with the adapter for a time after it was first released. So there is precedent already.
     
  12. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    People forget that Nikon made the FT-1 adapter for the Nikon 1 system that worked with 100% compatibility on all Nikon AF-S and AF-I built-in motor lenses. The adapter part would be easy for them.
     
  13. John M Flores

    John M Flores Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 7, 2011
    Somerville, NJ
    I would welcome new Nikon 1 cameras and lenses. I enjoyed my V1 a lot.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Legend

    Nikon 1 is viable, but they need a pen F style body and more fast and tiny primes.
     
  15. coffeecat

    coffeecat Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Aug 4, 2012
    SW England
    Rob
    Regarding the whole FF mirrorless thing and lens mounts/systems, Thom Hogan wrote an interesting piece recently, saying that Canon and Nikon are kind've stuck in a techno version of the "prisoner's dilemma" - they both need to decide whether their (hypothetical/rumoured/certain) future FF mirrorless systems use existing or new mounts. BUT the decision needs to be informed by what the "other guy" does, in order to be successful...
     
  16. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Legend

    Keeping the same mount makes the whole thing pointless doesn't it?
     
  17. John M Flores

    John M Flores Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 7, 2011
    Somerville, NJ
    Can we keep this discussion related to the 1 system and have the full frame discussion elsewhere?
     
  18. coffeecat

    coffeecat Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Aug 4, 2012
    SW England
    Rob
    Sorry - my bad. Friend of mine has very recently dropped several thousands on a complete (and I mean *complete*) Nikon 1 system (one body, many lenses). And I have to say I was pretty impressed/envious, apart from the "is the system dead" question.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Legend

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    How so? Sony still makes gigantic FF lenses for their mirrorless system. Leica makes even bigger lenses for their FF mirrorless system.

    What you gain from mirrorless is the EVF (WYSIWYG exposure monitoring), OSPDAF for better Live View focusing, electronic shutter for shutter-shock-free images.

    None of those require small lenses.
     
  20. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Legend

    So why did Sony create E mount? They have A mount cameras with EVF.
     
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