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does inkjet dye prints fade rapidly?

Discussion in 'Printing' started by walter_j, Mar 26, 2016.

  1. walter_j

    walter_j Mu-43 Veteran

    364
    Sep 10, 2013
    Hagwilget, B.C., Canada
    Walter
    I was told by a shop that sells and rents photo equipment to pros that printers that use a dye based ink such as Canon's Pro 100 (which i have) tend to fade very quickly. In some cases even w/o sunlight exposure. Has anyone experienced this? Other problems with dye based printers is that without a color profile for the printer and paper, the colours can be off significantly. I definitely struggled with colour profiles - even canon paper profiles.

    The tech recommended a pigment based printer such as a Canon pixma pro 1000. The pigment based inks also don't have colour casts too. The problem (for me) is the great expense: a pro 1000 costs 1500, and a set of ink is about 800
     
  2. Petrochemist

    Petrochemist Mu-43 Top Veteran

    652
    Mar 21, 2013
    N Essex, UK
    Mike
    I've had a few prints that have faded noticeably when left out. But I don't normally have an issue with fading even though I use budget third party inks. Sunlight is definitely the biggest effect, though oxidation and degradation from acids in the paper are possible too.

    None of my prints are kept/displayed in direct sunlight, and those that are on display long term are either laminated or in proper frames (both of which reduce air contact & UV).
     
  3. siftu

    siftu Mu-43 Top Veteran

    637
    Mar 26, 2015
    Bay Area, CA
    siftu
    I have the pro-100 and do 3rd party ink refills. The best purchase I made was the colormunki photo which makes the color shifts a thing of the past. I have profiles for each of my papers. I cant speak for how long the dyes last hanging but it's not as long as the pigments, I still hear stories of people hanging them for years with no problems.

    If I was selling prints I would probably get a pigment printer, but all my stuff is for personal use and I'm more than happy with the results.
     
  4. walter_j

    walter_j Mu-43 Veteran

    364
    Sep 10, 2013
    Hagwilget, B.C., Canada
    Walter
    Ahh. I just purchased a Spyder5express. What a disappointment. The profile it generated makes the B&W look awful, so I gave up on it. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. If I understood the paper/ink thing before i would have got the colormunki photo. I ordered Red River paper since they have a ICC profile. I'm wasting lots of time, ink and paper trying to get rid of colour casts - even with Canon ICC profiles. B&W prints are esp. problematic.
     
  5. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    Speaking from my own experience with my Canon ip3680, which uses dye ink for colours (and an additional pigment ink for pure black text), none of nearly a thousand prints faded, none, sealed or not, but I haven't tested them under direct sunlight; in contrast to that I have a print made with the exact same model that filled with unbranded ink which faded badly. My advice if you really care about image quality and longevity is to always buy genuine ink, even though the ip3680 isn't professional grade photo printer.
     
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  6. siftu

    siftu Mu-43 Top Veteran

    637
    Mar 26, 2015
    Bay Area, CA
    siftu
    Ah I haven't used that. I specifically got the colormunki photo because it can scan your prints and screens and gives profiles for them all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  7. Henk

    Henk Mu-43 Regular

    197
    Aug 18, 2010
    the Netherlands
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    To make high quality inkjet prints requires the use of custom profiles for every printer, ink, and paper combination - a change in any one of three requires a new profile. The standard profiles for printers and papers my get you close, but can have large shifts in tones, cast, etc.

    Print longevity is still up in the air as there has not been enough physical time pass to verify research. An article linked from the reference above, "How Long Will an Inkjet Print Last?" shows a HP Designjet 30 on the front, a printer which I had. I have 10 year old prints made with the best practices and materials of the day, and the colors are already showing a shift.

    If you want quality color prints that will last a long time, it is less time consuming and less expensive to have them produced at a custom lab/printer.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Wisertime

    Wisertime Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 6, 2013
    Philly
    Steve
    My prints from Canon Pro 100 have not faded. I've had it about 7mos. I don't leave them in sunlight either. There are a lot of factors that can come into play, but the newer dye based are supposed to have better longevity. Dye based printers are cheaper to buy/own/maintain and don't require as much maintenance and less prone to clogging. Prints can always be reprinted. There are also other options if you are really concerned with longevity in regards to storage, using non acid papers/matts etc.

    You can also laminate or use UV protection sprays (not tried yet, but might on certain products). I think the cost benefit makes it worthwhile, unless you think 100 years from now people are going to be looking at your prints as the next Ansel Adams.

    On the topic of color casts. If you use black/white printing option in properties before printing you eliminate that problem, otherwise the printer will use color inks to make B/W..the cast will usually fade in 24hrs. You just have to cover all your bases before you print. I make sizing errors all the time, because LR and canon drivers default to certain things, and switching catalogs in LR doesn't bring over last used settings/presets. Also I never calibrated with a device...just used an online tool to set up brightness and my prints are usually pretty spot on.

    Sounds like the shop wants to upsell you on a more expensive printer/ink package or is giving outdated info. Not that I'm an expert, but just based on my own experience and research. I don't regret my purchase a bit.
     
  10. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    I feel like I've read somewhere that Pro-100 inks are guaranteed 50 years or some such nonsense. I don't worry about print fade, as I'm not selling anything at this point.
     
  11. KimK

    KimK New to Mu-43

    2
    May 11, 2016
    Currently am using a Pro-100 and before that a 9900. I have many printed photos hanging around the home and they have held up well. I even have printed multiple 13x19 pieces and put them together on black foam board to make nice, huge images. The Canon dye printers are great for serious amateurs.
    I did try an Epson large format printer, but after a couple of years of heartache from clogged print heads I ended up giving it away. You have to print regularly with those printers.
    I have left the Pro-100 for many months at a time and it worked right away.

    Kim
     
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  12. walter_j

    walter_j Mu-43 Veteran

    364
    Sep 10, 2013
    Hagwilget, B.C., Canada
    Walter
    I have the most trouble with b&w prints. Even with icc profiles from the paper manufactorer for the printer isnt truly b&w. The canon paper profiles are the worst. They look awful - which is why i started this thread. Colour prints are much better. I rarely have a problem with colour cast.

    Longevity is another problem i hate to think about. I want to produce something that lasts decades. Whether someone wants to keep it that long is a totally seperate issue that i have no control over.
     
  13. KimK

    KimK New to Mu-43

    2
    May 11, 2016
    I haven't checked lately, but there used to be companies that would create custom ICC profiles for you. You print out on the paper that you plan on using, send the print in, they scan it and send you back the profile.
    I purchased a i1-Pro profiler a long time ago and am happy with the results, including B&W.
    I wouldn't buy a Pigment printer unless you use it regularly.
    I don't know about longevity for decades. If it is going to be in your home or your family/close friend's home, you can always reprint in the future (with the latest and greatest printer).
    I do know that I have prints that look great after 10+years. With no special protection. On the other hand, I had prints in our home in the mountain that were exposed to strong reflected sunlight that faded quickly. So did the furniture, etc. :)
     
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  14. walter_j

    walter_j Mu-43 Veteran

    364
    Sep 10, 2013
    Hagwilget, B.C., Canada
    Walter
    Good advice regarding pigment printer. I see that manufactorers simulate aging - which is why they can claim 50 year durability.

    Im thinking if i were to sell prints, i may print it myself just to proof it, then send it off for commercial printing. Im not there yet, but its something to think about.

    I dont want to get into framing and shipping either.