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Do you wish there are these buttons on the lenses?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by jyc860923, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    Have anyone wished for these two buttons on the lenses like I do, so that you can press either one to tell the camera to focus closer to further?

    The reason being, the operation with current electric MF ring is slow and inconsistent and everybody I know hates focus by wire. Sometimes when you're trying to focus on a flower, a bug or even a face coming towards you, the camera just focuses on the background for whatever reason, what if there's a way to tell your camera instantly that you need it to find focus on closer subjects, or the other way? A quick access to tell the camera the AF is wrong and to which way it should shift to find focus.

    We have had the touchscreen to select focus, which is very helpful but is slow and intrusive and yet still doesn't tell the camera about depth, so it fails from time to time.


    EDIT: what I'm thinking is not AF+MF, but a way to tell the camera "no that's not what I want, YOU need to find a closer or further focus for me when I press once, and keep finding another if I press again."
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  2. Isn't that just a full-time MF ring like a lot of DSLR lenses (including the FT SWD ones) have? Or SAF+MF mode? Or a linear fine adjust power zoom function?
     
  3. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    I thought about that, but in my experience the AF+MF hasn't been good enough. Sure when the camera focuses on the background you can manually override by turning the MF ring, and then you'll have to make sure you turned to the right direction, and how much as well, and when you think it's pretty close that you can let the camera do the rest so that you press the shutter button, it goes back to the background, so not only slow but often not working. I'm sure that's been the experience of not only mine. And besides, we also need to let the camera know when to make a more aggressive move in AFC, something the AF+MF can't do.

    I agree it's more like a focus lever on the powerzoom lenses, maybe that works better than the "ring" but in my imagination, a better way would be buttons, the duration and/or the pressure decides how much a shift.

    The point is you need to be able to force the camera to focus closer or further with no more than one press, not going back to the where the focus was again when you half press the shutter.
     
  4. ac12

    ac12 Mu-43 Veteran

    490
    Apr 24, 2018
    The simplest is to use single point AF and manually place the active focus point on the subject.
    I use this method as it is the most reliable, for me.

    If the camera focuses on the background, there is a reason it did that.
    If you use single point AF, and you put the active AF point on the background, that is what it will focus on.

    If you have trouble with the AF, work on that first.
     
  5. DynaSport

    DynaSport Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 5, 2013
    Dan
    The smallest focus box on my E-M1 is sometimes too big to get focus as precise as I would like, but I am ok with manually adjusting it. In theory anyway. Sometimes I am successful and sometimes not. But I think I just need more practice at it and it seems to work better with some lenses than others. What I want is a focus clutch or whatever it is called that allows me to go into manual mode no matter what the camera is set to. Not having that is the one thing that makes me wish I’d gotten the SWD version of the ZD50-200 instead of the non-SWD version.
     
  6. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    Yes the MF clutch is great, I've used the 12-40 and 40-150 2.8 and I love the mechanism.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    I'm just saying maybe there's a way to make the focus system better. I do as well as many get better skills with focusing but it has nothing to do with the fact that there's still room for improvements with cameras. Before the launch of EM5 and 12-50 kit lens I never thought about C.Fn button on a lens, or manual zoom/power zoom switch or even a splash proof kit lens but now we have it, would this be the next is what I'm thinking.
     
  8. Growltiger

    Growltiger Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 26, 2014
    UK
    My camera has it now. I set the focus mode to S-AF+MF, and the small single focus point.
    Aim and half-press. Then if it needs a tweak turn the focus ring and then press the shutter all the way down. I don't see how it can get better than this.
     
  9. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    I used to do that too when using Olympus.

    OK I get it, people are not excited with this idea, or yet at least. I was thinking maybe in the future we can have something smarter than the AF+MF method we have now. We now have the choice of which recognised face to focus on if there are more than one in the frame, which doesn't need to manually focus at all, more of an AF+AF I'm thinking.

    Thanks for your inputs guys, love to hear your opinions.
     
  10. Growltiger

    Growltiger Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 26, 2014
    UK
    For many years I have dreamed of a future where I can whisper instructions to the camera. We could do away with all the complicated menus and buttons.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. ac12

    ac12 Mu-43 Veteran

    490
    Apr 24, 2018
    The problem with AF is the camera is dumb.
    It will AF only as good as the coders coded the AF algorithm.
    It will NEVER be as good as your brain, until you can link your brain to the camera.

    In a group of 5 people, the camera will never be able to find YOUR subject without you telling it which is your subject.
    The process would be difficult.
    • The AF would have to determine the distances for everybody by actually focusing on every person/subject/object.
      • Without focusing on the different subjects, it cannot know the distances to the different subjects.
      • And how will it determine what to focus on; the dish of food, the chair, the light fixture, etc, etc.
    • Then it has to store the distances, and the subjects coordinates on the image.
    • Then you press "closer" or "farther" to tell the camera which way to change focus.
    • Then the camera would go to the next subject/object in distance.
    Even with face recognition, how to tell the camera which faces to focus on, if say you want only 3 out of 5 people?
    That is one reason that I do not use face recognition. I cannot control which faces the camera will try to focus on.
    So I go back to single point focus.

    Focus shift might work for static or SLOW moving subject, but anything fast, like kids at a party, pressing the button to change focus, and the kid has moved, or changed places, so the kids are at different distances than 5 seconds ago.

    It would also have to be on the body, not the lens. If on the lens, you need those buttons on EVERY lens. And some m4/3 lenses are pretty darn small, with no place to put those buttons.
     
  12. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    I know the technical limitations, the camera is dumb and it won't know what to focus on until it finds a focus, my idea is that we, the users, are pushing the buttons to provide the camera with what we know, which is depth, the camera doesn't know there's a flower nearer to the lens but we are telling it something it there and that's where it should shift to find a focus, which should be a better alternative than AF+MF.

    When you're tracking your kid, or dog, or anything running to you and the AFC tracking isn't keeping up, don't you wish there is a button to tell the camera, isn't it better than tweaking whatever settings there might be and ask your runner to run again?

    It's not necessary to put the buttons on the lenses, just an opinion, since everything is programed it sure can be anywhere, it's also true that we don't need the focus-by-wire focus ring to be on the lens, it could be placed inside the battery door if the engineer wants to.
     
  13. ToxicTabasco

    ToxicTabasco Mu-43 Top Veteran

    505
    Jul 2, 2018
    South West USA
    I prefer at the most 2 switches on the lens, and more buttons on the camera for most lenses. Telephotos and super telephotos on the other hand, should have switches for limiting focus to the long end to speed up AF. And to turn on and off panning stabilization as well as full stabilization. Thus, anything more than 3 switches will become a hassle that gets in the way of holding the lens and making switches by feel harder to do without looking at the lens.
     
  14. PakkyT

    PakkyT Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 20, 2015
    New England
    Don't you use the E-M1? If so, you can configure the lever so that the down position is MF mode. I originally tried it with the default where the down position gives you a different set of options on the split buttons on the top but I could never remember what they were so never used them. So I simply reconfigured that lever for MF when down and removed that option from a button I was always accidentally hitting when slung on my shoulder. So a simply flick of the thumb and it is pretty much exactly the same as a focus clutch on the lens itself.

    Yes, you can set it in this mode and leave it. If you don't play with the focus ring then you are effectively in S-AF mode. But if you grab the ring and twist it you are now in S-AF+MF mode. Makes it kind of a poor man's SWD lens.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Olyver Mark

    Olyver Mark Mu-43 Regular

    33
    Jan 26, 2018
    North America
    The lens 12-40 and 40-150 has previously been mention on that thread, and they both have the L-Fn button. On my OM-D EM1 MKII I can set this button to AF-Limiter. While holding the L-Fn button I turn the front dial to select between (Set1 [0-2m], Set2 [1.5m to 10m], Set3 [8m to infinity]). Distance of Setx are programable. Could this be enough for you if your camera had the same feature?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    they can program the lens button to do that, then they can program it to do more.
     
  17. melanieylang

    melanieylang Mu-43 Veteran

    316
    Jun 23, 2017
    Yes, I think that would be super! Like having the focus limiter on a macro lens - I think you mean something that would work similarly? And it would be great it it was programmable to your most useful lengths.
     
  18. Gerard

    Gerard Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    May 12, 2015
    Vleuten, Utrecht
    At first I voted No, after reading properly I changed my vote to yes. After 50 years of shooting (very) cheap cameras, that left no area out of focus, my m43 cameras gave me the possibility to get areas out of focus. It seems to have something to do with creativity. Whilst I find most pics with people in focus and rest in blur more or less boring, sometimes I use this feature myself. In those cases AF is not good enough. So the suggesting to get a programmable or designated button for a focus limiter is a smart one.
     
  19. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    Wow, so the idea has evolve into programmable focus limiter, didn't think of that. I was inspired by the AF-On and AF-Stop button, and I thought why not AF-Closer and AF-Further?
     
  20. Gerard

    Gerard Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    May 12, 2015
    Vleuten, Utrecht
    I interpreted that it wasyour idea :) 
     
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