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Do you think is that grain normal at iso 200?

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by onurpnr, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. onurpnr

    onurpnr Mu-43 Regular

    48
    Apr 13, 2012
    I took this picture on iso 200 and super fine jpeg. Anyone has comments?
     
  2. With_Eyes_Unclouded

    With_Eyes_Unclouded Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 17, 2012
    Vassilios
    On my monitor, I can only guess the grain you refer to is on the man's coat. Is that right? If that's the case, I had the same issue with a couple of photos (always with dark clothing) but I can't remember the ISO. I will check it if you like.

    It's not "grain" btw, the way we refer to grain in film, etc. It's chroma noise. Perhaps the in-camera algorithms try to compensate for sharpness in the image and produce this effect trying to get rid of moire; I'll leave more knowledgeable people to comment on that.
     
  3. mauve

    mauve Mu-43 Top Veteran

    892
    Mar 9, 2010
    Paris, France
    Without knowing the camera, I can only guess, if that's an Olympus, that you probably left the gradation parameter on 'auto'. You might want to set it to 'norm' permanently.

    Cheers,
     
  4. Streetshooter

    Streetshooter Administrator Emeritus

    Dec 15, 2009
    Phila, Pa USA
    onur.....
    Is your issue with noise technical or an esthetic issue?
    Don
     
  5. onurpnr

    onurpnr Mu-43 Regular

    48
    Apr 13, 2012
    Dear Friends,

    Firstly Thank you for the promt replies.

    mauve: I just set all of the the gratition parameters norm for all the picture mods. I will try ro take pictures that way. And I will post some more samples.

    Streetshooter: I can say both technical and esthetic. I just want the control and option on the picture I take. If i want to have noise ı can always add afterwards. But when i dont want noise I just dont :) thats the isseu for me.

    With_Eyes_Unclouded: Thanks for the explenation. I stand corrected. I think I was a bit lost in translation :)
     
  6. Streetshooter

    Streetshooter Administrator Emeritus

    Dec 15, 2009
    Phila, Pa USA
    Roger that, glad we all could help.
    I'll leave you in mauve's hands. He's an old friend that knows what's going on...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. mauve

    mauve Mu-43 Top Veteran

    892
    Mar 9, 2010
    Paris, France
    More on what gradation does, from Olympus point of view : Olympus How to Take Great Pictures [Function Description: Gradation]

    The thing is, when on auto in the kind of light you had, the algorithm tries desperately to pump up details from the central shadowy silhouette without burning the illuminated background. So it takes the pictures with speed & aperture set for the background, and applies an electronic gain on the shadows. But electronic gain brings noise.

    On the 'norm' setting, no processing is done, the shadows will be dodged (almost completely black), but the silhouette will stand out.

    Photography is always a matter of trade off.

    Thank you Streetshooter for the (undeserved) praise, happy to see you here again :)

    Cheers,
     
  8. onurpnr

    onurpnr Mu-43 Regular

    48
    Apr 13, 2012
    Thank you very much for the detailed explenation. I am very much appreciated of it. As soon as possible I will take some pictures( probably today) and will share here to enlighten the others who may possibly live this problem.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. mauve

    mauve Mu-43 Top Veteran

    892
    Mar 9, 2010
    Paris, France
    I think this gradation parameter is certainly one of the main reasons why :43: has been quickly dismissed as noisy by sloppy reviewers.

    It's an amateur setting, set so that, while on matrix exposure calculation, the camera doesn't forget to record aunt Martha's face.

    When you set this gradation parameter to normal, you may want to switch your measure to center weighted and apply exposure compensation manually according to the subject. It's more demanding on the photographer, but you'll be the one in control instead of having the camera freewheeling and showing you unwanted results.

    Cheers,
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    The gain is digital (applied in processing). That means that if you shoot RAW, the files are essentially unmodified.

    However the other thing Autogradation does is tweak the exposure, reducing it by 1/3 of a stop. This protects the highlights, but provides even less exposure to the shadows, making them still noisier.

    It works best for contrasty situations where you have both very bright areas and very dark ones.

    Nikon and Canon both have similar settings, and they're fairly popular. But it helps that their sensors have a lower noise floor. Hopefully the new 16MP sensor Olympus has started using will help there too.

    DH
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Mauve's diagnosis of Gradation being the culprit seems to be correct. I don't think that it is one of the better features on Olympus cameras.

    Incidentally, where was the image taken? The architecture looks Ottoman in origin; reminds me of Damascus or Aleppo.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. onurpnr

    onurpnr Mu-43 Regular

    48
    Apr 13, 2012

    Its Istanbul. Suleymaniye Mosque..
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. onurpnr

    onurpnr Mu-43 Regular

    48
    Apr 13, 2012
    Thanks a lot once again for further explenation. Now I am happier with my cam now.