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Do you really need that FF mirrorless system?

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by Holoholo55, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. Holoholo55

    Holoholo55 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Aug 13, 2014
    Honolulu, HI
    Walter
    I saw this posting on Dennis Mook's blog today. I agree heartily. I left a pro-grade APS-C camera (Canon 7D) behind for an M43 system 6 years ago. Haven't looked back since. Getting an FF system would be unsustainable for me and I have higher priorities for my limited budget. I'm not a pro, and can't justify expenditures with income. To those who want to experiment with an FF system, you have my blessing. I ain't taking that train. I don't NEED an FF system. :) 

    The Wandering Lensman: I Have Been Seriously Toying With Buying A Full Frame Mirrorless Camera; Notes on Sony, Nikon and Canon And A Surprise Ending
     
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  2. Thai-Mike

    Thai-Mike Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 2, 2016
    Thailand
    Michael
    I think it is not about need. It is, I guess, what I want to feel comfortable with.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Holoholo55

    Holoholo55 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Aug 13, 2014
    Honolulu, HI
    Walter
    Well, if you're not comfortable with something, then something must change. I had a Canon 7D and even though I didn't have a bagful of L lenses, what I had weighed and was bulky enough that seeing and touching an Olympus EM5 was enough to change my whole way of thinking. I wasn't comfortable any more with the Canon, and found the M43 a lot more comfortable. That hasn't changed for me. I still have lust for new stuff (GAS), but have tried to be sensible (my wife may not agree :)  about it. Would I be more comfortable with the size, weight, and cost of an FF system? I don't think so. IMHO. :) 
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. The Grumpy Snapper

    The Grumpy Snapper Mu-43 Veteran

    216
    Oct 9, 2017
    You need FF mirrorless if you want the 517 shots of your pussy, Mr Fluffyboots, to be taken seriously on Fricker.
     
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  5. PakkyT

    PakkyT Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 20, 2015
    New England
    We need FF in order to generate all these endless FF discussions on a m43 site (yes I know this is the Open Discussion forum). :dance2:
     
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  6. TNcasual

    TNcasual Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Dec 2, 2014
    Knoxville, TN
    Ive said it before... I use the full frame in my cameras, unless the image needs cropped for composition reasons. I’m not sure why anyone would do otherwise.

    :026:
     
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  7. macro

    macro Mu-43 Veteran Subscribing Member

    398
    Jan 22, 2012
    New Zealand
    Thanks for the concern, but yes I do. All the best and thanks for asking.

    Danny.
     
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  8. davidzvi

    davidzvi Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    No, no I don't need a FF that's why I sold off my FF DSLR system this year.
     
  9. Enjoyment, enjoyment, enjoyment..................that's what it's all about. I had the 7Dmkll for it's extra reach, and the 6D for it's excellent ability to fast focus in dark situations and it's lack of noise at high iso. I miss the 6D in particular as the m43 system is lacking for me in the dark rainforest......................but?..................missing it or not, I am enjoying my photography trips with the m43 much more. Will I ever return to FF? No! m43 has exceeded my expectations in all areas but the rainforest and it more than makes up in other areas what it lacks in there.
     
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  10. Telonson

    Telonson Mu-43 Veteran

    492
    Dec 24, 2017
    If they make a FF that able to perform feats that either can't or aren't being addressed by M43?

    Then yes, perhaps.

    For instance, a camera able to take low noise 4K video in extremely low light? More compelling yet if can provide fast and accurate no hunting auto focus, with IBIS, RAW, and either extremely fast readout or global shutter.

    And maybe Panasonic or Sony's next generation of full frames will have much of those capabilities. Or maybe the generation after. Hard to say. But when they do, expect there will be tremendous interest.

    And if M43 could beat FF to an extreme low light, image stabilized, low noise, great auto focus, global shutter, no crop, RAW, 4K video, well then, FF better watch out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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  11. Tool Crazy

    Tool Crazy Mu-43 Regular

    189
    Jul 5, 2018
    I've thought about ff, but I like...
    • 6.5 stop IBIS
    • Fully articulating screen
    • Small cameras
    • Light cameras
    • Small Lenses
    • Tiny lenses
    • Less expensive pro level lenses
    • Low weight
    • 4k video with no crop
    • 4k 60p
    • Cameras that don't look like 80's dslrs
    • Traveling light
     
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  12. Mike Wingate

    Mike Wingate Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 21, 2017
    Altrincham
    Mike Wingate
    I went on a 14.5K photowalk in Manchester
    4803205B-FF32-42C6-89F4-D4F2D72FC271.jpeg
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    F87EC215-5E04-406C-A24F-3554F57616FB.jpeg
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    with my friend he took his new Nikon D850 and Sigma 24-70 lens, i took my GX80 and P14-140. I did some indoor test shots with the Olympus 75mm. I got some nice shots. My friend is still tired.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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  13. alex66

    alex66 Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jul 23, 2010
    I don't others do, I got the Sony I had for the 55mm it is a very nice lens it was sold as it was too heavy to use constantly for me. Some may require lower noise at high ISO or want to have one eyelash in focus while the rest is a blur and that's their choice. I want less weight, greater DOF for an angle of view, for some reason this year I started shooting an awful lot with a 17(35) field of view the Oly 1.8 seemed a great choice. What works for me won't work for others I am fine with that, what works for others is fine but telling me I am not serious due to using little cameras or you have to use FF to be a proper not fine.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    Horses for courses. For now, I shoot both. But prefer the output and experience of my A7rIII for available light candids and landscapes. Love the E-M1 for the snappy handling, and great value telephoto options. But the size difference between it and a 12-40 and the Sony with the 16-35/4.0 is small enough for me to almost always choose the latter.
     
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  15. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 10, 2010
    Kiillarney, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    good .. don't buy one.

    Personally I like mine and it lens shares with many lenses I bought for m43 anyway ...

    Why the hell do we have to have so many threads about this subject. There are many forums where you can join and discuss, but if you don't want one, well just skip the discussion and stop attempting to diss a system you don't know well enough but which is perfectly fine as a photographic tool. Is it because you have some secret lust?
     
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  16. ionian

    ionian Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 20, 2016
    Kent, UK
    Simon
    Can I recommend mods start a mega thread for all these posts and merge them together so the boards aren't littered with them?

    You could call it:

    Full frame v m43 megathread
    Or
    To full frame or not to full frame, that is the question
    Or
    I like small sensors and I cannot lie
    Or
    Let's all wave the flag for a camera system because it gives us a sense of togetherness
    Or
    So what if my hands are small
    Or
    Freedom of choice means choosing Panasonic or Olympus biatches

    Or whatever really.
     
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  17. Sniksekk

    Sniksekk Mu-43 Top Veteran

    503
    Apr 7, 2015
    @ionian@ionian or «my Lens is larger then your lens”.
    I agree with you btw.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Mike Wingate

    Mike Wingate Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 21, 2017
    Altrincham
    Mike Wingate
    Donald Trump may have a dilemma. Small hands, GX9. Role as POTUS, FF. now Clint Eastwood would make Medium Format his day.
     
  19. bikerhiker

    bikerhiker Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 24, 2013
    Canada
    David
    In terms of physics, the very best FF will always have a 2 stops advantage compared to the very best m43. This is why I believe the next E-M1 model will somewhat be comparable to the A7III in terms of IQ; albeit about 2 stops behind. So if you're happy with 2 stops less IQ, then there is no reason to go for FF. Unless you are planning to go commercial and sell big prints, then there is no reason to go for FF. I just came back from a 3 week trip; land and on a cruise and what do I see now in 2018? More FF mirrorless, especially the Sony A7 series under the hands of normal people. In the past, I see more APS ad m43 on a cruise, but I am now seeing that people are embracing mirrorless FF as vacations and trips are once in a lifetime trip and they place a huge importance to have a camera that captures the best image IQ. People always chase the best image IQ possible and at a budget they can afford. Normal people don't need 300m f/4 lens or f/2.8. They are happy with 3.5-5.6 lenses as long as they give sharp decent images. But the camera is really important in the equation; it always has. A typical consumer and amateurs always believe that a camera body gives the better images. In my former work in Photography of 30 years, I see the behavior exist then exist today. It doesn't matter if you tell them to hone their skills, learn more about PP and shoot RAW. People always want the path of least resistance to a great image IQ. And so far, FF delivers at least from the hype.

    Would I really need a FF? Probably not, but I would like to suggest Olympus stop focusing on selling the top of the line stuff that comes in a size package the same as the Sony A7, while alienating those people who truly want to stay with m43 but need a performance boost. I see Panasonic is already doing this with the GX9 for $998 US, so why is it Olympus not doing theirs?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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  20. Telonson

    Telonson Mu-43 Veteran

    492
    Dec 24, 2017
    Agree. It's baffling. The G9 is an excellent stills camera. It's difficult to imagine what stills features this Olympus could add to justify an additional $1500 worth of value. Video features might justify that price, but it seems unlikely that Olympus could leap directly to GH5 levels of video from where they are now. And even the GH5 is now selling for as little as $1700, new, and fully warrantied.

    Interestingly, Olympus actually is in a perfect position to fight on video. Many of their competitors hold back video features from their DLSR style cameras to as not to cannibalize sales of their professional video cams. But unlike them, Olympus has no professional line of video cameras to cannibalize.

    There was a rumor just this week that Panasonic's pro video silo is fighting to prevent the coming full frame L-Mount bodies from being able to record RAW video. Suspect it's much the same at Sony and Canon.

    Olympus could add all the cheap and free features that that in varying degrees, their competitors refuse to put in their DLSR style bodies. Many would be no more than software tweaks. Features like high frame rates in all modes to the limit of the sensor and processor, high bit rates in all resolutions to the limit of the recording format write speed, 10 bit LOG, video RAW, timecode, waveform, vector scope. All software.

    And on the hardware side, high speed USB 3.1 gen 2 direct write to SSD, headphone jack, mini XLR jack, dual card slots . All that hardware combined carries at worst a few dollars in cost.

    Effectively, most of the features that BlackMagic has dropped into their $1300 Pocket Cinema 4K M43 body. And if BlackMagic can do it, why not Olympus?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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