1. Reminder: Please use our affiliate links for holiday shopping!

Do we need dedicated EV dials?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Yong, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. Yong

    Yong Mu-43 Regular

    96
    Sep 25, 2014
    xt1.
    X-T1

    a7r2.
    A7R Mark-II

    It's always good to have direct physical access to exposure control, but dedicated EV dials are little bit overkill for digital cameras IMO. I think fly-by-wire exposure compensation works good enough.

    In addition to this, We lose the choice of EV steps when we have dedicated 1/3 stops EV dials. I always prefer 1/2 stops EV compensation. It works better than 1/3 stops for me.
    I hoped Panasonic to support EV stops choice(currently they have only 1/3 stops control) via firmware update, but they went further with GX8 by attaching physical EV dial on it. That was a big disappoint for me.
    While Panasonic renowned for excellent user configuration, looks like they have no interest about this.

    I can't get the point of having EV dials. It feels like waste of real estate of the camera, especially for digital ones.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    All the dials are fly by wire. The difference is dedicated or modal. Once electronic controls took over in film SLRs modal dials became the norm. I actually prefer modal, because the same dials are used for all adjustments (what they control depends on the mode of the camera, hence "modal" dials) and less muscle memory is needed. The advantage of dedicated dials is that the camera doesn't have to be turned on to know the state / settings.
     
  3. Ricoh

    Ricoh Mu-43 Top Veteran

    906
    Nov 2, 2013
    UK
    Steve
    A dedicated EVF dial represents good camera design in my opinion. As too would be a shutter speed dial, and an aperture control on every U43 lens. ISO as a display choice, I could live with that.
     
  4. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    I use exposure compensation quite bit. It a scene has uneven lighting and I wan to be sure that one part exposes properly at the expense of the other, that's what I do. I don't always like the choices for iso that camera makes do I do change that myself. OTOH, I don't use customized settings much so I could do without and explicit PASM dial. It funny how different we all are.
     
  5. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    In a word - "yes". I have one of the OMD's dials set to EV and use it more than any other control.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    it's not too bad to have a hard EV dial, but I doubt you can control the EC from cellphone remote then.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    Not sure I need a dedicated EV dial, but I definitely prefer it. I'm not constantly tweaking it, but it is nice to have the direct control when you need to tweak it.

    I'm on board with what the two Steves said above. Dump PASM dial, give me shutter speed on a dial, aperture on lens and EV. I like how the LX100 is set up (except for the iA and filter buttons :():

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTEjj9n9De5s7dPjwS8ChNNnmxbXU8BVaOIzCHjAiGDY2MeOTf14A.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. tyrphoto

    tyrphoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 25, 2014
    Seoul | NYC
    ㅇtㅈyㅅr
    As someone who grew up on film bodies, I prefer physical dials for aperture, shutter, EV and ISO. This is one area where I think a company like Fuji really gets it in terms of UI. Another camera is the Nikon Df.

    Although I like my E-M5 Mk.II's UI and have adapted to it's twin dials (back dial set for aperture, front for EV), overall I prefer my X100T's, along with other Fuji cameras, interface of a physical aperture dial, shutter dial and EV dial where I can see the settings before I even raise the camera up to my eye or look at the rear LCD.

    Also, like a few others have said, I find the PASM dial to be inferior to an aperture dial with an "A" mode along with a shutter dial with an "A" mode.

    To me, the X100T is a smart design in terms of UI. If they could add an ISO dial underneath the shutter dial, it would be perfect. This way, I could assign the Fn button for the built in ND filter instead of having to assign it as an ISO button currently.

    16982634783_124b27cff7_b.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Speedliner

    Speedliner Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 2, 2015
    Southern NJ, USA
    Rob
    Sometimes I think it would be nice, but do we really need it? EV is always there in A and S priority and in Manual you don't need it since you can choose to adjust A or S directly.

    If you shoot manual, why do you need EV control? Not being rhetorical, I'm really asking...isn't an EV dial redundant for manual mode?
     
  10. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    I think a dedicated EV compensation dial is the only dial that should be on a modern camera with absolute values associated with it. Everything else should be a context-dependent command dial. But the EV comp. dial is still very useful, but only if it works with Auto ISO in M Mode. Shutter speed dials, aperture rings (though nice sometimes), ISO dials, are purely extraneous.

    With an EV comp dial in M Mode you can set the shutter speed you want for motion effect, the aperture you want for DoF effect, the EV comp determines the relative scene brightness / exposure you want compared to the camera's meter, and the ISO is floating dynamically in Auto, because there is only ever one correct value for ISO - the lowest one possible.

    No fuss, no muss. Optimal image quality, always the right exposure with the right artistic effect, and it will dynamically compensate for any change in lighting (a frequent occurrence during the nice light hours at dawn and dusk). The perfect control set-up, in my opinion. Shame we don't have it in M4/3, even with the GX8.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Ricoh

    Ricoh Mu-43 Top Veteran

    906
    Nov 2, 2013
    UK
    Steve
    That Fuji above looks a damn fine camera, very nice indeed. Looks like the Fuji designers had a good brief from their marketing department.
     
  12. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I don't really get the point, personally, given that most cameras already just use one of the regular exposure dials to control EV. Why would I want to have another dial to juggle when I can just use one that is already at my thumb or forefinger?

    Looking at the LX100 above, those controls seem rather ridiculous compared the GM5, where you just have one easy to access dial at your thumb that can control both with less fuss. Why would the EC dial be in an easier to access place than the shutter speed? Do you really control EC that often? Shutter speed is every shot!
     
  13. dornblaser

    dornblaser Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 13, 2012
    Chicago-area
    David Dornblaser
    I like having a physical EV dial that I can adjust without taking my eye from the EVF.
     
  14. tyrphoto

    tyrphoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 25, 2014
    Seoul | NYC
    ㅇtㅈyㅅr
    Both the X100T and E-M5 Mk.II are sexy looking cameras, IMO, although in different ways. One looks like a retro SLR and the other looks like a retro rangefinder.

    Just looking at the cameras at first glance, it looks as though the Olympus has far more buttons/dials and overall, looks much busier. Look more closely though and both cameras have exactly 22 buttons/dials (including the shutter button and diopter dial). They're both almost identical in size as well. In use though, the Fuji is far more intuitive and took less time getting my muscle memory down pact.

    But then again, both cameras are much more complex than the Olympus Trip 35 which basically only has a shutter release, ISO dial, aperture ring, zone focus ring, film release button and film rewind knob. :biggrin:

    19893920311_710576fda9_b.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. dornblaser

    dornblaser Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 13, 2012
    Chicago-area
    David Dornblaser
  16. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    You can still do that if all it requires is a button push to toggle the EV compensation on one of the other regular dials that your thumb or finger is already resting on. Having to remove your hand from the shutter button to reach up and twist some dedicated top dial seems less streamlined.

    I think the top dials are nice if you want to set your exposure settings prior to putting the camera to your eye. But once you are looking into a viewfinder, you should have all the controls right there at thumbs reach (or shutter finger).
     
  17. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    The top dials on the OMD's are modal, because the same dial can control different things. A dedicated exposure compensation dial can only control exposure compensation. Again, the only functional difference between modal and dedicated dials is that a dedicated dial will display the exposure compensation setting even if the camera is off. This is not the case with modal dials.

    I set my OMD's so that in Av or Tv, the front top dial controls either aperture or shutter speed and the rear top dial exposure compensation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  18. dornblaser

    dornblaser Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 13, 2012
    Chicago-area
    David Dornblaser
    Of course, but I am used to the current dial set-up.
     
  19. tyrphoto

    tyrphoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 25, 2014
    Seoul | NYC
    ㅇtㅈyㅅr
    Actually, on both my X100T and X100 with the camera up to my eye, I use my thumb to rotate the EV dial. It's much harder to turn the dial using just your index finger and on the X100T, it's really difficult as the EV dial is much stiffer. On my E-M5 Mk.II, I've assigned the front dial for the EV and back dial for the aperture or shutter depending on the mode.

    Both systems work very well for me in use while shooting but all things equal, I still like having physically marked dials.

     
  20. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I'll be honest, I use Exposure Comp about 2x a year, so maybe I shouldn't be arguing anyway! :roflmao: