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Do third party lens manufacturers lack imagination?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by OzRay, Sep 18, 2014.

  1. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    4/3 Rumors have posted that Samyang will introduce a new 50mm f1.4 lens for m4/3 (as well as for 4/3???): http://www.43rumors.com/samyang-announces-a-50mm-f1-4-for-microft-and-also-for-four-thirds/. The world plus dog seems to be introducing a variation of a lens between 25mm and 50mm (give or take) for m4/3. Why aren't more looking at producing lenses of potentially greater interest, unique lenses that aren't already jostling for shelf space. The Voigtlander 10.5mm (regardless of f stop), for example, is trying to go outside the square, but do we need another 50mm lens? I understand that these focal lengths are relatively easy to design and produce compared to wider and longer lenses, but I think there are enough choices already. Why not some really wide, rectilinear, lenses say at f2 or thereabouts? Let's not chase the absolute fastest, but look for the absolute best image quality wide open. Is my view once again somewhat jaundiced?

    I just noticed, when looking at: http://www.four-thirds.org/en/microft/single.html#i_085mm_f028_kowa, that Kowa has now introduced an 8.5mm f2.8 rectilinear lens. This I could like for scenes where I want to manually set focal distance, such as astrophotography.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. RevBob

    RevBob Super Moderator

    Jun 4, 2011
    NorthWestern PA
    Bob
    I tend to agree. The duplication of focal lengths is definitely odd. Why not not produce something new - you'd think the market would be better. :confused:
     
  3. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    662
    Jul 1, 2013
    I agree completely. The Tamron 14-140 is the perfect example.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. 0dBm

    0dBm Mu-43 Top Veteran

    859
    Jun 30, 2011
    Western United States
    Making something new involves finding the market to justify the capital outlay to develop it. Evaluating an existing product type that is already sold in a particular market at least identifies the demand. The maker can then offer a product that has a feature that the others do not have so that it will entice the consumer to try that new feature in a known product type. Familiarity may breed contempt but if the new feature captures the imagination of the consumer, it just may translate into revenue.

    How many automakers now offer SUVs now? Even Bentley will have it own version soon!
     
  5. kinlau

    kinlau Mu-43 Top Veteran

    836
    Feb 29, 2012
    The Samyang 50/1.4 is a cine lens meant to fill a hole in their cross-platform lineup, and just so happens that it's very easy for them to stick a m43 mount on it.

    Samyang already has the largest 3rd party lineup of lenses for m43, and the market for fast wide lenses isn't all that big.
     
  6. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    Have you found this for sale anywhere? I'm seeing a lot of pages dedicated to its announcement/unveiling, but I've yet to find it for sale.
     
  7. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I looked and couldn't find anyone selling it, or any indication of a price. Funnily, it's the only current manual lens that could interest me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. speedandstyle

    speedandstyle Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    The new 50mm is available in a cine version{at t1.5}, however the 50mm f1.4 is a photography lens. You are right about it being a cross platform lens and it was really designed for full frame DSLRs and to a lesser degree APS DSLRs. SamYang just happens to make their lenses available to just about every current mount. The thing that makes me sad is that they had said it was going to be f1.2.
     
  9. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    Too bad. I've been toying with the idea of moving to all primes for travelling, but nothing so far can replace my 9-18. If they could make an 7, 8 or 9mm the size of the 9-18, I'd be so happy! :D
     
  10. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    While I have no intention of getting rid of my 7-14mm f4, sometimes I'd like an ultra-wide, single focal length, lens that was a tad faster than the 7-14mm.
     
  11. AussiePhil

    AussiePhil Mu-43 Top Veteran

    776
    Jun 1, 2014
    Canberra, ACT, Aust
    Phil
    But in the reverse twist this one is the Cine lens repackaged and the Cine lenses have a common T1.5 Aperture so not unexpected it would be an F1.4.

    Apart from the convenience of not using adapters it is often better to buy the Nikon/Canon mount to give the option of using a Speed Booster.

    I love my 85mm Samyang but the 50mm really gives me little over the O45 so it's not on the books. I was eyeing off the 24mm Samyang Cine but for the same money I can get the O17 1.8 and i'm not convinced that the extra 2 stops is worth manual focus, mind you the clickless aperture may well swing the balance.

    Back to Ray's point, I think that the common focal lengths will get made and I don't think it's lack of imagination rather sound business. Personally I would love to see some third party long primes or zooms. 400mm & 500mm F4 or F5.6 second hand stuff is widespread and it would be nice to see them redone with new optical design and glass.
     
  12. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    That and the apparent lack of serious distortion! it's probably not physically possible, but I would love to see more small/pancake lenses. Another huge plus about the 9-18 is that it's soooo tiny (I backpack a lot)....oh well, we can dream, right? :)
     
  13. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I do wonder how much business sense it does make, when every man and his dog are producing the same FL lenses. Sure it's easy to do when all you have to do is just change the mount, but do they really want to be in the supermarket game?
     
  14. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    Well, the 50 is seen as a very classic and "natural" FL. Fast versions of it are easy and generally the FIRST lens DSLR owners buy is a fast 50. So...I see the point in making that (especially when some third party manufacturers do awesome things with them - ie the Sigma 50 1.4). From there on, especially on a non-electronic lens like Samyang it's basically zero cost at all to change the mount so you can expand into other markets...so why not?

    I'd like to see more variety too, but I see the reason behind so many companies jumping on the 50 bandwagon.
     
  15. alex66

    alex66 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    715
    Jul 23, 2010
    What surprises me is that the big three independents produce so little for the mirror free sector, given it is a growing market I would expect them to see some sales in there. I would like to see them produce some interesting versions of the things they produce for SLR cameras, Sigma produce a nuts 150-500 or something like that or Tokina's wide 2.8 zoom. The downside is I could see the majority building glass around APS focal lengths giving us and Nikon 1 users odd ball focal lengths, would be good to see them creating lenses that are the lacking areas of the whole sector; fast tells and wides instead of normals.
     
  16. Timmy

    Timmy Mu-43 Regular

    110
    Dec 3, 2013
    Wiltshire - UK
    This Dutch Site has it on sale for € 1.259,00.
     
  17. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Yeh.. does seem a bit boring move on their part. 50mm is a bit long in focal length too...
     
  18. tosvus

    tosvus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    632
    Jan 4, 2014
    Sigma could take their 18-35 1.8 and speedboost it internally, maybe with the help of Metabones, make sure it has AF etc, and sell a very cool roughly 13-25mm 1.2

    Another question is why is no 3rd party seizing the opportunity to create a Teleconverter (that retains all electronic functions)
     
  19. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    From my perspective, a teleconverter only makes sense after they release faster telephoto primes.
     
  20. tosvus

    tosvus Mu-43 Top Veteran

    632
    Jan 4, 2014
    Who are they? It is quite common that makers of tele-converters are different from lens-makers. I don't think Prime is a must either. The Panasonic 35-100 begs for a tele converter. The 100-300 would be cool with a converter for extreme range, though hard to say about the quality combined with that.